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 Posted:   Jul 17, 2013 - 5:39 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Do you think JG heard the Africa score prior to writing Planet of the Apes?

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 18, 2013 - 4:07 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

A Jerry Goldsmith post with no responses!

I did not think this was possible!

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 18, 2013 - 3:28 PM   
 By:   Tall Guy   (Member)

A Jerry Goldsmith post with no responses!

I did not think this was possible!



It's the implications that are like kryptonite to cult members!

 
 Posted:   Jul 18, 2013 - 4:11 PM   
 By:   bdm   (Member)

Don't know about Africa, but I know Jerry had heard North's rejected 2001 Dawn of Man sequence, which was obviously an influence on him for Apes.

 
 Posted:   Jul 18, 2013 - 4:31 PM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

It's the implications that are like kryptonite to cult members!

Nah. I just don't think there are that many here who are familiar with "Africa."

I love both scores. I suppose they share some common DNA, but they are very different works, and are both influenced by pieces that came before. And that's just fine. Something doesn't have to be a complete reinvention of form to be original, and both of these scores are dynamic and fresh and wonderful.

 
 Posted:   Jul 18, 2013 - 4:32 PM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)

Don't know about Africa, but I know Jerry had heard North's rejected 2001 Dawn of Man sequence, which was obviously an influence on him for Apes.

All 3 movies are from the same year.

Are you sure that Goldsmith listened to North's score for "2001" and "Africa" before he wrote "Planet of the Apes"?

 
 Posted:   Jul 18, 2013 - 5:17 PM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

All 3 movies are from the same year.

No, "Africa" is from '67, the other two are '68.

 
 Posted:   Jul 18, 2013 - 5:27 PM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)

No, "Africa" is from '67, the other two are '68.

So, Jerry could have been influencied by it.

Cool!

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 18, 2013 - 9:10 PM   
 By:   HAL 2000   (Member)

There are Northian touches in several of Jerry's early scores. North was, after all, a dear friend and mentor to Goldsmith. But if there's any clear influence on his POTA score it's Bartok.

And as for the OP. It really doesn't invite much discussion. Do we think he listened to it? Maybe. Then what?

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 18, 2013 - 9:13 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

But if there's any clear influence on his POTA score it's Bartok.


There are also some very clear Stravinsky passages.

 
 Posted:   Jul 19, 2013 - 2:34 PM   
 By:   ToneRow   (Member)

Do you think JG heard the Africa score prior to writing Planet of the Apes?

I can say "yes". Not because there's any inside knowledge about this particular subject, but this very same question came into my mind a number of years ago.

So my affirmative refers to the fact that I've thought along these lines myself & not due to any factual biographical information on such.

... and ...

I'd go a bit deeper and suggest that Henry Brant (Alex North's orchestrator) had probably encouraged/inspired North to write music which was more modernistic than what North had written prior to the AFRICA assignment.
[perhaps TheFamousEccles could chime in here and comment (if he wishes)]

As for the chronology, North & Brant travelled to Munich to records AFRICA in April of 1967.
[I understand, too, that whilst there, North met his future wife AnneMarie, who was interpreting between English & German]
The television program was aired during September '67 (& I expect the MGM LP of AFRICA was available by October of that year).

The original PLANET OF THE APES was opened on screen as early as February 8th, 1968.
I don't know the actual dates of the TCF studio recording session for PLANET OF THE APES, but I believe I read somewhere that they were done around December 1967.

So ... it's very possible that Jerry Goldsmith had listened to North's AFRICA prior to his composing for POTA.

Alex North went to England in January of 1968 to record his score for Kubrick's 2001, so the master tapes on Goldsmith's POTA were likely already in the 'can' before North travelled to the Denham Anvil studios.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 19, 2013 - 8:30 PM   
 By:   chromaparadise   (Member)

The PLANET OF THE APES recording sessions were on December 20th and 21st, 1967 and January 3rd 1968. That's right off the recording session Orchestra Breakdown sheet.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 20, 2013 - 7:27 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Hey ToneRow, I knew you would chime in! Yes, I hear similarities between various parts of the Africa Symphony and POTA, especially the percussion combined with the brass doing things in fourths. I don't hear much crossover between POTA and the Africa Suite (which frankly I don't care for too much). But the symphony, yes.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 20, 2013 - 7:48 AM   
 By:   johnbijl   (Member)

Are you sure that Goldsmith listened to North's score for "2001" and "Africa" before he wrote "Planet of the Apes"?


In the booklet for the re-recording of 2001 Goldsmith wrote that he heard North's score for the first time in the early seventies.

 
 Posted:   Jul 20, 2013 - 8:33 AM   
 By:   RoryR   (Member)

The PLANET OF THE APES recording sessions were on December 20th and 21st, 1967 and January 3rd 1968. That's right off the recording session Orchestra Breakdown sheet.

THANK YOU!!!! Finally someone tells me when the recording dates for this score were. I've been waiting years to find this out. Now maybe FSM could add this information to their anniversary announcements.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 20, 2013 - 8:41 AM   
 By:   McMillan & Husband   (Member)

A Jerry Goldsmith post with no responses!

I did not think this was possible!



It's the implications that are like kryptonite to cult members!


Yes, yes, we get it: you don't care that much for Goldsmith. No need to constantly go around insulting all his fans.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 20, 2013 - 8:42 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)



Yes, yes, we get it: you don't care that much for Goldsmith. No need to constantly go around insulting all his fans.


To whom, may I respectfully inquire, is this directed?

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 20, 2013 - 8:43 AM   
 By:   McMillan & Husband   (Member)

TallGuy. He's become the flipside of Eastman.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 20, 2013 - 8:44 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

TallGuy. He's become the flipside of Eastman.

Oh, OK, because I like Goldsmith very much, at least prior to the pony tail era. (I volted in the 10 favorites poll.)

 
 Posted:   Jul 20, 2013 - 12:55 PM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

I'm not sure.

The fact is that when two or more contemporary composers push an envelope and break the SAME set of rules, twist the SAME major/minor clashes, employ dissonance to the SAME extent at the SAME time, then they'll be open to the accusation of 'derivation' and 'influence'. It was what was happening at the time in music generally.

Given that Africa suggests exotic percussion, bass brassy chords and quick descending intervals, maybe (if it can be said without pejorative implications) 'primitive' dissonances, and string rhythms, certain sorts of close harmony etc., and apes on a jungle planet suggest something similar, then two composers of the same era, on the same position on the timeline from romanticism to atonality, using the same sort of cliche for a dramatic context shouldn't seem that odd.

You could as easily say that North was influenced by Barry's 'Zulu' with that use of brass, or whatever. I'm not sure there are that many similarities.

 
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