To all those bemoaning a lack of hummable themes in today's landscape, I repeat my argument above: How many of you actually look outside Hollywood? If you do, you'll find plenty of scores that are exactly what you describe.
To all those bemoaning a lack of hummable themes in today's landscape, I repeat my argument above: How many of you actually look outside Hollywood? If you do, you'll find plenty of scores that are exactly what you describe.
Agreed! The argument that there are NO hummable melodies in today's film music is utterly absurd!
It amazes me what a lack of enthusiasm there is here for another Williams Indiana Jones score. This...is a film music forum, right?
Maybe it's because the Crystal Skull album kinda sucked (not as much as the movie tho', hehe)... the complete score was *really* excellent though so I'm super excited for this. And I have to imagine they noticed the backlash against the fourth movie and will do something different/better there, this time around.
Yavar
I just got done praising Williams for creating some of the greatest film music ever over the last 60 years. But honestly the last decade has been a dud, his writing has gotten tired and uninspired. (IMHO) So I'm not particularity excited for another JW's Indie score. Give it to John Powell or James Newton Howard.
Within the glut of superhero epics these days there's certanly room for grand themes. The fact that there aren't any (I would haumbly argue) is because composers these days are incapable of writing them.
How about Christophe Beck channelling Schifrin and Mancini? Maybe not "grand" (the character doesn't call for it) but catchy/memorable as hell:
Here's hoping that Michael Giacchino shortly proves me wrong.
Well it's clearly not Superman (nothing is) but I think this at least partially proves you wrong already:
No?
And I agree 100% with my IFMCA colleagues Thor and Erik -- venture outside of mainstream Hollywood and you'll find a much better hit to miss ratio when it comes to beautiful melodies these days.
It amazes me what a lack of enthusiasm there is here for another Williams Indiana Jones score. This...is a film music forum, right?
Maybe it's because the Crystal Skull album kinda sucked (not as much as the movie tho', hehe)... the complete score was *really* excellent though so I'm super excited for this. And I have to imagine they noticed the backlash against the fourth movie and will do something different/better there, this time around.
Yavar
I just got done praising Williams for creating some of the greatest film music ever over the last 60 years. But honestly the last decade has been a dud, his writing has gotten tired and uninspired. (IMHO) So I'm not particularity excited for another JW's Indie score. Give it to John Powell or James Newton Howard.
You Poor Thing…Stop Stealing Medication out of you’re Moms Purse. Please!
Why would I be looking outside the film scoring / Hollywood? We are all dedicated Film Score Enthusiasts?
Anyway – you are missing the point. I am not asking for John Williams – or – any other composer for that matter to – ‘write memorable themes and leitmotifs’. I have over 1,000 scores to choose from.
I am stating that the modern demographics in society – do not allow composers to write incredible memorable music like they used to do; because the general public does not want that kind of music in their modern films.
You don’t need to say other veteran composers cannot write memorable music… I argue that they all can – because so many composers can write memorable music – not only John Williams.
When I sit through a modern (Disney) ‘Star Wars’ score in the cinema – I can feel / sense – how the people in the audience dislike the incredible music – and it hurts me once they jump up – and are quick to leave the cinema – once the credits start to roll over.
Most of the crowds out there won’t bother with watching the films – if the music is a s memorable as it used to be.
If we had a Henry Mancini compose a modern movie score; none of these young teens will bother to watch it.
Most people prefer Hans Zimmer over John Williams. That is what is currently in fashion. I simply stay away from modern film scores! Period.
Unfortunately I decided to have a listen to the ‘Superman & Lois’ score… due to hearing the music in that TV Series – I will not be watching the show. That is the kind of music people prefer now-a-days.
When Williams gets asked to compose a score; he is most probably getting asked not to write a memorable score. That is what I am saying – I am not asking him – or any other composer to write music how it was 30 years ago…
Why would I be looking outside the film scoring / Hollywood? We are all dedicated Film Score Enthusiasts?
Yes, and there are plenty of great scores that should be celebrated that aren't that are produced outside of Hollywood.
I am stating that the modern demographics in society – do not allow composers to write incredible memorable music like they used to do; because the general public does not want that kind of music in their modern films.
Do you have proof of that notion? Yes, some directors like melody, some don't. Some film score fans like melody, some don't. Some film score fans love electronic scores, others don't. There are fans of orchestral scores, while there are others that can't stand the sound of an orchestra. These preferences haven't changed over the years.
When I sit through a modern (Disney) ‘Star Wars’ score in the cinema – I can feel / sense – how the people in the audience dislike the incredible music – and it hurts me once they jump up – and are quick to leave the cinema – once the credits start to roll over.
Literally, 99% of all audiences take off during the end credits unless they think there is going to be a post-credits scene. No one other than you, me and the rest of the film score community are sticking around for the end credits because of the music.
Most of the crowds out there won’t bother with watching the films – if the music is a s memorable as it used to be.
Huh?
If we had a Henry Mancini compose a modern movie score; none of these young teens will bother to watch it.
That's absurd. One of the most popular films of all time, The Incredibles, had a Mancini, Barry, Spy inspired score and everyone loved it!
Most people prefer Hans Zimmer over John Williams. That is what is currently in fashion. I simply stay away from modern film scores! Period.
Yes, some people prefer Zimmer, some people prefer Williams, some people prefer Levi, some people prefer Powell, some people prefer Giacchino, some people prefer the Golden Age and refuse to listen to anything written in the past 40 years. But that's what makes this community so great. We all have different preferences. If we all loved the same stuff it would be quite boring around here.
When Williams gets asked to compose a score; he is most probably getting asked not to write a memorable score. That is what I am saying – I am not asking him – or any other composer to write music how it was 30 years ago…
What are you talking about? The first thing Williams THINKS ABOUT is writing a memorable melody that will belong to that film and that film alone. Something the audience will pick up one and say, hey, that's from that film and not confuse it with another score he has written. And that goes for his orchestration. He takes a lot of time developing the sound of his score so that it will be memorable.
When I sit through a modern (Disney) ‘Star Wars’ score in the cinema – I can feel / sense – how the people in the audience dislike the incredible music – and it hurts me once they jump up – and are quick to leave the cinema – once the credits start to roll over.
Literally, 99% of all audiences take off during the end credits unless they think there is going to be a post-credits scene. No one other than you, me and the rest of the film score community are sticking around for the end credits because of the music.
Yes, this complaint is pretty bonkers. As a guy who always liked staying for credits, I can attest that everybody I went to the movies with has always wanted to leave the moment the credits rolled, from the '70s through the '80s and on up to today, and they would impatiently wait for me to join them. The suggestion that this is a new thing coming from disdain for film scoring is very odd to me.
Yes, this complaint is pretty bonkers. As a guy who always liked staying for credits, I can attest that everybody I went to the movies with has always wanted to leave the moment the credits rolled, from the '70s through the '80s and on up to today, and they would impatiently wait for me to join them. The suggestion that this is a new thing coming from disdain for film scoring is very odd to me.
I saw both STAR WARS and SUPERMAN in a theater when they first came out and I can attest to this as well. Two of the greatest film scores of all time and very few people in the audience cared. Of course the albums sold well...
I would like to state this comment with the utmost confidence; and that is that: It is not John Williams’ fault. It is the modern demographics.
You can blame producers like Rick Berman – (Star Trek: The Next Generation) – who do not want incredible thematic ideas written into their scores. I am certain that John Williams can write music just as well as he did in his glory years. Unfortunately people; he is not allowed to do so!
Composers like Miklós Rózsa and Bernard Herrmann – always delivered – always – as society had not changed! Unfortunately; directors like Steven Spielberg have changed – (or probably) – adapted to the new modern demographic society – (what will make them more money – more success). The film scores suffer because of this factor.
Unfortunately films like ‘B.F.G.’ – and even – ‘Ready Player One’ – (which was composed by Alan Silvestri) – are nowhere near as memorable as there work in the early 1990s. Unfortunately; it is the way of the world…
From now on folks; we are only going to get film scores that are basically wallpaper compositions. No more memorable themes; and no character-based leitmotifs either – there will be nothing available that we can hum anymore.
Let’s just hope and pray that this 5th ‘Indiana Jones Adventure’ – does give us at least one new solid theme; and hopefully; an interesting variation on the main theme. (I hope that John Williams does not go back to the library of music he had written previously; but rather gives us new variations on the classis themes we know and love)…
However; as I said above; I do strongly believe Williams and Silvestri; can give us – (the audience) – new themes and leitmotifs – just as they had done 30 years ago; and they will be as memorable as they were; however; it is the producers of these films – (unfortunately the directors themselves) – who don’t want that…
Even some people on this forum said things like: 'I wish we don’t get to hear Darth Vader’s Theme every time he is on the screen!'
WTF? It is unfortunate that people – with that kind of opinion – ruin it for others. For most of John Williams fans out there; that is actually what makes the score a lot of fun; and there are at least 50 variations on his theme – (and that is the original trilogy alone). That is what makes the score fun to listen to.
And yet; the world has moved on harshly; as people don’t want to hear fun scores anymore… That is modern demographics for you; and it is the way of the world – most probably; for the past 20 years!
The teenagers have ruled since the 1950s; and they will continue to rule the fashion trends - (including film scores).
I took a drink everytime you mentioned "unfortunately" and now I've graduated to meth.
Within the glut of superhero epics these days there's certanly room for grand themes. The fact that there aren't any (I would haumbly argue) is because composers these days are incapable of writing them.
How about Christophe Beck channelling Schifrin and Mancini? Maybe not "grand" (the character doesn't call for it) but catchy/memorable as hell:
Here's hoping that Michael Giacchino shortly proves me wrong.
Well it's clearly not Superman (nothing is) but I think this at least partially proves you wrong already:
No?
And I agree 100% with my IFMCA colleagues Thor and Erik -- venture outside of mainstream Hollywood and you'll find a much better hit to miss ratio when it comes to beautiful melodies these days.
Yavar
Well, I enjoyed the ANT-MAN theme (which I'd never heard before) though in the goold old days it would have been a secondary theme for the Klingons or whatever.
DOCTOR STRANGE -- meh.
But who are these great unknown international composers and why aren't they migrating to Hollywood and making Zimmer-like fortunes?
Why would I be looking outside the film scoring / Hollywood?
Because you can't make sweeping generalizations about the state of the things -- like the absence of hummable themes or traditional symphonic scores or whatever -- when you're only looking at one particular industry and refuse to look at anything else out there in this big wide world.
But who are these great unknown international composers and why aren't they migrating to Hollywood and making Zimmer-like fortunes?
Probably because in Hollywood the more money would come with less creative freedom! Some composers have in fact moved to Hollywood and their style has often suffered. I'm thinking of Spanish composers like Fernando Velazquez and Roque Banos as two strong examples of composers whose Hollywood work suffers in comparison to their other work. Or heck, for a more familiar name look at how Patrick Doyle has sometimes been able to let loose on a foreign film like he used to in Hollywood in the 90s... but compare that to something like Thor which is bland and generic temp track hell a lot of the time (IMO).
Benjamin Wallfisch joined up with Zimmer of course, and I'm not wild about a lot of his more recent music... but have a listen to this relatively early orchestral score he wrote for a Peter Pan *theatrical production* (not even a film):
Is that the kind of theme you're talking about missing?
Funny thing, as much as I hate the Hollywood copycat machine the only reason why we got two decades of amazing symphonic thematic scores was because every producer at the time said, "Make it sound like Star Wars".
But who are these great unknown international composers and why aren't they migrating to Hollywood and making Zimmer-like fortunes?
Probably because in Hollywood the more money would come with less creative freedom! Some composers have in fact moved to Hollywood and their style has often suffered. I'm thinking of Spanish composers like Fernando Velazquez and Roque Banos as two strong examples of composers whose Hollywood work suffers in comparison to their other work. Or heck, for a more familiar name look at how Patrick Doyle has sometimes been able to let loose on a foreign film like he used to in Hollywood in the 90s... but compare that to something like Thor which is bland and generic temp track hell a lot of the time (IMO).
Benjamin Wallfisch joined up with Zimmer of course, and I'm not wild about a lot of his more recent music... but have a listen to this relatively early orchestral score he wrote for a Peter Pan *theatrical production* (not even a film):
Is that the kind of theme you're talking about missing?
(Glad you liked Ant-Man even faintly.)
Yavar
Wallfisch has done some impressive work (I'm thinking BLADE RUNNER 2049 and IT) but nothing outstanding yet. You might be right about Banos as (checking YouTube) the main title to THE LAST CIRCUS (whatever that is) is much better than his ineffectual work on IN THE HEART OF THE SEA (which should have been red meat for a composer) and THE IMPOSSIBLE. I know even less about Valazquez apart from his unimpressive (to me) scores to CRIMSON PEAK and A MONSTER CALLS.
BTW, I know Nathan Johnson has been praised for his score to the recent NIGHTMARE ALLEY but to me that film really needed a dynamite score to match the lush visuals and sinister themes ... and didn't get it. A half-asleep Goldsmith or Herrmann would have elevated the film immeasurably.
Quote: ‘Funny thing, as much as I hate the Hollywood copycat machine the only reason why we got two decades of amazing symphonic thematic scores was because every producer at the time said, "Make it sound like Star Wars".’ End Quote…
Thank You – King Solium! As I was saying; it is all up to the producers!
Phew! Somebody who literally agrees with me. That is why I had mentioned that composers; back in those days; did compose their music in the style of John Williams.
Now; in this new millennium – they all compose in the style of Hans Zimmer; which is why John Williams writes scores like 'B.F.G.' - and - 'War Horse' (for example); the latter had the opportunity to be extraordinary; and it wasn't.
Now; in this new millennium – they all compose in the style of Hans Zimmer; which is why John Williams writes scores like 'B.F.G.' - and - 'War Horse' (for example); the latter had the opportunity to be extraordinary; and it wasn't.
Obviously, we're all free to have our own opinions on the musical merits of these two scores… but are you contending they were done in the style of Hans Zimmer?
