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Posted: |
Sep 20, 2019 - 6:01 AM
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By: |
Graham Watt
(Member)
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Since Quartet's initial announcement thread included GHOST STORY too, I thought I'd take the initiative to separate them. GHOST STORY already has its own well-deserved thread, and THE TENANT is no less worthy of not having to share a room, much less a scary toilet.
So I've just given this a first listen. I rarely make comments after first listens, but I'm making an exception here because I've got five minutes free before I have to make lunch, and because THE TENANT is a great Philippe Sarde score. Great release, fascinating liner notes which detail the Sarde-Polanski relationship well, plus a great overview of "how" the music and the instrumentation etc etc works in favour of the film, so much so that it's almost impossible to imagine this music accompanying anything other than the (in my big-headed opinion) amazing film for which it was written.
I'll have a bit more time over the weekend to spout more rabbit bollox about the film and score, but I'll finish for now by saying that I'm having a dashed difficult job trying to work out the logic behind the CD presentation. That's not a criticism, it's just an observation. We did get some of the score (paired with TESS) on the Ecoutez le Cinéma! CD, but on first glance there appears to be one or two titles on that disc that aren't on the Quartet. The blurb in Quartet's announcement states that the new CD also contains Album Versions which Sarde had prepared for an LP that never materialized. That's okay - those tracks are at the end of the CD under "Album Versions". The "Source Music" is also easy to identify. It's the source music, and it's great. So - is the "Additional Music" just the music that didn't appear on the earlier two-fer? Music that wasn't used in the final edit? I thought I saw some of those titles on the Ecoutez CD, but there seems to be a lot of crossover, including (perhaps) track title changes for the same music. I haven't had time to check yet. And then, if the first portion of the CD is just chronological (for example), why is Track 4 "Delirium" bracketed as "Film Version"? So the other tracks aren't? It's all very confusing for me.
The good news is that I love this music and film. The bad news is that it's now too late to make lunch and I have to go back to work hungry. But what do you care about me? Sarde's the man, Quartet's the label, and Bob's your uncle.
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Posted: |
Sep 20, 2019 - 7:58 AM
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By: |
Leo Nicols
(Member)
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Since Quartet's initial announcement thread included GHOST STORY too, I thought I'd take the initiative to separate them. GHOST STORY already has its own well-deserved thread, and THE TENANT is no less worthy of not having to share a room, much less a scary toilet.
So I've just given this a first listen. I rarely make comments after first listens, but I'm making an exception here because I've got five minutes free before I have to make lunch, and because THE TENANT is a great Philippe Sarde score. Great release, fascinating liner notes which detail the Sarde-Polanski relationship well, plus a great overview of "how" the music and the instrumentation etc etc works in favour of the film, so much so that it's almost impossible to imagine this music accompanying anything other than the (in my big-headed opinion) amazing film for which it was written.
I'll have a bit more time over the weekend to spout more rabbit bollox about the film and score, but I'll finish for now by saying that I'm having a dashed difficult job trying to work out the logic behind the CD presentation. That's not a criticism, it's just an observation. We did get some of the score (paired with TESS) on the Ecoutez le Cinéma! CD, but on first glance there appears to be one or two titles on that disc that aren't on the Quartet. The blurb in Quartet's announcement states that the new CD also contains Album Versions which Sarde had prepared for an LP that never materialized. That's okay - those tracks are at the end of the CD under "Album Versions". The "Source Music" is also easy to identify. It's the source music, and it's great. So - is the "Additional Music" just the music that didn't appear on the earlier two-fer? Music that wasn't used in the final edit? I thought I saw some of those titles on the Ecoutez CD, but there seems to be a lot of crossover, including (perhaps) track title changes for the same music. I haven't had time to check yet. And then, if the first portion of the CD is just chronological (for example), why is Track 4 "Delirium" bracketed as "Film Version"? So the other tracks aren't? It's all very confusing for me.
The good news is that I love this music and film. The bad news is that it's now too late to make lunch and I have to go back to work hungry. But what do you care about me? Sarde's the man, Quartet's the label, and Bob's your uncle.
Graham, thanks for your great review....you've just convinced me to buy (another) film score !
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Posted: |
Sep 20, 2019 - 10:34 AM
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By: |
Graham Watt
(Member)
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Thanks Neil - You obviously know what you're talking about, having shared the bulk of the work on the CD. But I'm still confused. Getting mixed up between what was in the film, what wasn't in the film, what was(n't) on the (proposed) LP... Still, no big deal. I should be listening to it again instead of posting here.
BUUUUUT!!!! I had to jump in to stop Leo from ordering so soon. Leo!!! Stop!!! That wasn't a "review" wot I wrote. It was merely an incontinent rabbit, the ravings of a10-foot tall Lovecraftian penguin-rabbit. THE TENANT isn't as astounding as THE SENTINEL! In fact, because some of the same material is repeated in the extras, it may seem just a tad long even at 45 mince. I don't want the responsibility of you buying it, hating it, and thus hating me. I'm sensitive that way. I wonder in fact if this is one case where it's actually "important" to have seen the film in order to fully appreciate the music. It can of course be enjoyed as pure music, but I personally wouldn't get as much out of it (probably) without inadvertantly conjuring up images of the film. Unfortunately it also conjures up images of some truly atrocious dubbing, but that's for another rabbit.
Right, I'm off to listen to this again. And Sarde's GHOST STORY. Ah but it's been so hot all day that there's a serious thunderstorm starting. I know a man who was listening to music on his headphones once during a thunderstorm, and the lightning came down the chimney, into his headphones, and literally electrocuted his brain. Sizzled to death. Horrible.
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Posted: |
Sep 21, 2019 - 9:45 AM
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By: |
Graham Watt
(Member)
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Curiously enough, I almost never play samples. If I decide I want something I'll go ahead and buy it. The sweat-inducing wait (will it be crap?) can quite sweat-inducing. Funnily enough, after I've bought and heard something, I'll occasionally go back to hear the clips - and I often find myself thinking that I'd have missed out on a lot of great scores had I based my decision on the clips alone.
I'm gonna hear THE TENANT again. Had GHOST STORY on this morgan, time for THE TENANT. Love the unsettling tone throughout - it's sometimes almost like Michael Small. Ambiguous. The liner notes say it very well - The clarinet is an ambivalent instrument, especially when played "straight" here ("not male, not female, not Jewish, not jazz - no effects"), as is the Polanski character who the instrument gives voice to. I said in a previous post that on first listen it seemed a tad padded towards the end due to the bonus tracks, but I've only heard it once so I'm allowed to change my mind.
I might watch the film too tonight. It's been a while since I saw it. Tremendously unsettling, with all those Polanski obsessions (wallpaper features heavily in most of his films, and in this one there's a feckin' tooth stuck in the wall!). I also seem to remember some very atrocious dubbing. Surely Polanski had no say in that, and yet I wonder how it could have been given the green light. Something like French actors dubbed by English actors (Shane Rimmer etc) doing American accents... Or was this done to "alienate" the Polanski character even more? It certainly alienated me.
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Posted: |
Sep 21, 2019 - 10:48 AM
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By: |
Leo Nicols
(Member)
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Curiously enough, I almost never play samples. If I decide I want something I'll go ahead and buy it. The sweat-inducing wait (will it be crap?) can quite sweat-inducing. Funnily enough, after I've bought and heard something, I'll occasionally go back to hear the clips - and I often find myself thinking that I'd have missed out on a lot of great scores had I based my decision on the clips alone.
I'm gonna hear THE TENANT again. Had GHOST STORY on this morgan, time for THE TENANT. Love the unsettling tone throughout - it's sometimes almost like Michael Small. Ambiguous. The liner notes say it very well - The clarinet is an ambivalent instrument, especially when played "straight" here ("not male, not female, not Jewish, not jazz - no effects"), as is the Polanski character who the instrument gives voice to. I said in a previous post that on first listen it seemed a tad padded towards the end due to the bonus tracks, but I've only heard it once so I'm allowed to change my mind.
I might watch the film too tonight. It's been a while since I saw it. Tremendously unsettling, with all those Polanski obsessions (wallpaper features heavily in most of his films, and in this one there's a feckin' tooth stuck in the wall!). I also seem to remember some very atrocious dubbing. Surely Polanski had no say in that, and yet I wonder how it could have been given the green light. Something like French actors dubbed by English actors (Shane Rimmer etc) doing American accents... Or was this done to "alienate" the Polanski character even more? It certainly alienated me.
Graham,
I agree with you regards "samples" they can sometimes be very misleading.
Slightly "off-topic" while we're talking about Polanski when are we going to get a "full" decent release of 'The Fearless Vampire Killers, (AKA 'Dance ot the Vampires') by Krzysztof Komeda ?....I hope I've spelled his name correctly.....or is it Christopher ?
Instead of the awful "truncated" Harkit release that was released a few years ago ?
Pardon me, but yer teeth are in me neck....Ouch !
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Posted: |
Sep 21, 2019 - 11:16 AM
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By: |
Last Child
(Member)
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Curiously enough, I almost never play samples. If I decide I want something I'll go ahead and buy it. The sweat-inducing wait (will it be crap?) can quite sweat-inducing. Funnily enough, after I've bought and heard something, I'll occasionally go back to hear the clips - and I often find myself thinking that I'd have missed out on a lot of great scores had I based my decision on the clips alone.
Noone suggested buying a cd based on clips alone, but to avoid them seems counterproductive. Usually they're representative of the content, and knowing at least the film genre and composer, I don't think I've been "misled" (to quote Leo) to avoid purchasing something I would have liked. I might change my mind later after watching the movie, but that doesnt mean I would have liked the CD first. And liking sound samples is no guarantee either - I've purchased CDs based on sound samples, genre, composer, and not been impressed over all. But I would rather trust my ears and the relevant details than rely on hearsay since everyone's taste is different.
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Posted: |
Sep 21, 2019 - 11:32 AM
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By: |
Leo Nicols
(Member)
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Curiously enough, I almost never play samples. If I decide I want something I'll go ahead and buy it. The sweat-inducing wait (will it be crap?) can quite sweat-inducing. Funnily enough, after I've bought and heard something, I'll occasionally go back to hear the clips - and I often find myself thinking that I'd have missed out on a lot of great scores had I based my decision on the clips alone.
Noone suggested buying a cd based on clips alone, but to avoid them seems counterproductive. Usually they're representative of the content, and knowing at least the film genre and composer, I don't think I've been "misled" (to quote Leo) to avoid purchasing something I would have liked. I might change my mind later after watching the movie, but that doesnt mean I would have liked the CD first. And liking sound samples is no guarantee either - I've purchased CDs based on sound samples, genre, composer, and not been impressed over all. But I would still trust my ears and remain evidence based than buy based on hearsay since everyone's taste is different.
With respect... I said "sometimes" can be very misleading, but not always.
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Posted: |
Sep 21, 2019 - 11:42 AM
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By: |
Last Child
(Member)
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With respect... I said "sometimes" can be very misleading, but not always.
The point being made, if I understood you correctly from the context, was that Graham (and you?) have made, or would have made, the mistake of not purchasing if you didn't like the samples of some CDs. I was saying my experience was the opposite. That the ones I avoided were probably correct, and any "mistake" I've made was buying when I liked the samples. Not all the time, of course, otherwise I wouldn't recommend playing samples. But Graham said he rarely plays them. I'm sure I'll be corrected that he wrote "almost never," not "rarely."
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I also seem to remember some very atrocious dubbing. Surely Polanski had no say in that, and yet I wonder how it could have been given the green light. Something like French actors dubbed by English actors (Shane Rimmer etc) doing American accents... Or was this done to "alienate" the Polanski character even more? It certainly alienated me.
There's a French-language track on the DVD and, I assume, all other home versions of this film. If you ever get tired of the squawking English dub, the French version has "smoother" voices.
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Posted: |
Sep 22, 2019 - 5:32 AM
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By: |
Graham Watt
(Member)
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Zardoz - How can you remember that I thought DANCE OF THE VAMPIRES was "shite", when I can't even remember myself what I thought of it? I think you've got us all filed. I feel spied upon.
Mark - Hmm, my DVD has got (apart from English of course) German, Spanish and Italian language track options. But no French.
I watched the film last night as threatened, and thought it was as brilliant as Roger Ebert thought was terrible. But there's one thing which almost ruins it - the dubbing. Could someone tell me the story behind this? Did Polanski give it the green light? The only actors who seem to be using their own voices are Polanski himself (excellent in the role), Shelley Winters, Melvyn Douglas and Jo Van Fleet. All the others in the cast are French and are dubbed, atrociously. So we have burly French gendarmes drawling, "Alright alright, keep your hair on for Chrissake" and stuff like that. If the imdb is to be believed, they were English equity actors such as Shane Rimmer and David DeKeyser "puttting on" (why?) American accents. I tried to watch the mouth movements of the French cast, and noticed that while some were clearly mouthing French, others were speaking English, or at least their mouths were mimicking English. Isabelle Adjani was evidently speaking English, but even she was dubbed, in the most appalling way. To listen to this is as bad as watching a Grade Z Filipino horror film.
So, on my DVD at least, I could watch it in German, Spanish or Italian. But then I'd lose the voices of Polanski and the American cast (although again, according to the imdb, Polanski dubbed himself for the Italian one). And if my DVD had the French option which Mark's has, I could watch it in French. But even in that one, we'd lose the voices of Polanski and the Americans. I'm not even sure the French would be the "authentic" French filmed at the time with the French actors. And what about Isabelle Adjani? She was mouthing English, but even if in they use her own voice in the French dub, her big beautiful French lips would be going the wrong way. Or maybe it's me who's going round the bend.
"Apparently" (and this is really tantalizing if true), it was shot simultaneously in French too. I want to see that. Unfortunately I'm just a nutmeg when it comes to films, and know nothing. I don't even have a BluRay player. Laugh at me if you want. If the French-shot version exists (ha ha ha), we'd have Polanski, Adjani and all the supporting cast speaking their real fluent French. But what about Shelley Winters, Melvyn Douglas and Jo Van Fleet? Did they speak French or were they dubbed?
It's amazing to me that the dubbing is so awful and yet the film still shines as a masterpiece.
Ah, the score. Before I watched the film yesterday (and just after having listened to the CD again), I was just about to say that the first part of the CD would seem to be (more or less) the music as heard in the film. The "Additional Music" would be the unused cues. The "Source Music" would be the great, unsettling semi-jazz piece heard as they dance at the party, and the "Album Versions" would be 15-minutes worth of what Sarde had prepared for an LP that never appeared. So I think that the Source Music is the source music and that the Album Versions are the album versions, but after having seen the film, I now know (or "think I know") that it's all mixed up. There's a lot more music even on the main programme of the CD than there is in the film, and what there is in the film is in a different order, or truncated for dramatic effect. So I was going to say yesterday that I'd have preferred the CD as a listening experience if.... but now I can't say that.
But I will. I think that I'd have preferred the CD as a listening experience if the Main Prog and the Additional Music (plus the Source Music) had been arranged as one block, to flow in a logical musical manner. Then we'd have the Album Versions as a bonus. As it is, it begins to drag towards the end, and even within the Main Prog plus Additional Music one after the other, it seems like a little bit of reshuffling between the two would have helped. But I'm not a record producer, and obviously Quartet will rightly come back at me to tell me that Philippe Sarde himself oversaw the CD and that's the way he wanted it.
It is great music though. In addition to the "neutral" sounding Hubert Rostaing on clarinet, we have loads of really creepy orchestral cascades. Some of it even goes into Komeda territory. And that plainsong or heathen or pagan grinding stuff that opens the film and recurs throughout sounds like it's 12th Century. It reminds me of The Wicker Man.
This is a great film and a great CD.
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