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 Posted:   Jul 30, 2006 - 12:15 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

WARNING! THIS WILL BE A LONG POST! PROCEED WITH CAUTION! smile

I am just now listening to "Ressurection", a glorious piece of music from John Debney's PASSION OF THE CHRIST (love it when the choir takes over after the initial percussion), and it spurred me to create this thread. For those who have been following my writing on this board for the last few years, you already know that I am particularly enamoured with something I label "The Religious Sound", especially related to Williams. In 2000 or so, I wrote a brief article about it on my website Celluloid Tunes - http://www.celluloidtunes.net/williams.htm - but since many are too lazy to click the link, I have pasted the entire article in below.

Although there have been similar threads in the past, I can't find any of them, so I might as well start up a new one. I'd like to hear people's opinions, thoughts and recommendations on this subject. smile

The article:

John Williams - the Medium?

~A look at the maestro's "religious" sound~

I must admit that I'm not a very religious person. Yes, I'm Christian, but not to the extent that I am a regular sunday church-goer, I'm afraid.

Nevertheless, I've always "been drawn to" the power that is inherent in musical works that describe and evoke a higher being, such as Mozart's "Requiem", Händel's "Messiah"-chorus or Barber's "Adagio for Strings".

So, what do I mean exactly - "religious sound"? Well, I think it's quite self-explanatory. What separates humans from beasts, to quote Descartes, is our ability to think and ponder our own existence. In so doing, many feel a great desire to comfort and assure themselves of their rightful place in the universe. Usually, this is done by BELIEVING in a higher being, a being that is our own creator. After all, if we are able to believe in something higher, someone or something must have put that thought into us initially. We are in constant search for this something or this creator (like V'ger in STAR TREK: THE MOTION PICTURE!), and a way this Being manifests itself in our daily lives is through art - man's ability to utilize God's gift, if you will.

Music is certainly one of these media of divine communication. Through history, many composers have tried to nail that particular "Voice of God" in their works, some more successfully than others. I've mentioned Mozart and Händel already. John Williams is, although perhaps not as influential, still as capable of speaking and getting in touch with that inner religiousity as the aforementioned...

Actually, to put it more bluntly, no one has been able to move me "religiously" in a more profound way than my favourite film composer. And it's quite ironical, seeing as his reputation is usually tied to the grand and epic swashbucklers, the melodic fanfares and marches and not the subdued majesty of his religious compositions.

As a matter of fact, I would go so far as to say (and it's my theory) that Williams' trademark sound NOT is the neo-romantic Korngold-approach, but rather his incredible insight into what is universally considered religious; a majestic, haunting, spine-tingling, hair-rising sound that moves people. It is hard to pinpoint this sound technically, as I lack the skills, but it is always minor-moded and often evoked by a solo instrument (woodwinds in particular).

There are a lot of examples of this in his prolific career, dating back to the very beginning, especially when he was not in the usual jazz-mode. The sound even features prominently in works such as STAR WARS, although it unfortunately is overshadowed (popular-wise) by the action material.

Let me proceed, then, to provide you with a few examples. See if you can form the pattern yourself:

"Main Titles" from SGT. RYKER (1968)

"Restoration" from JANE EYRE (1970)

"Blood Moon" from IMAGES (1972)

"Appearance of the Visitors" from CLOSE ENCOUNTERS (1977 - somewhat arguable, this one)

"Main Title" from THE FURY (1978)

"The Ark Theme" from RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK (1981)

"The Emperor's Theme" from RETURN OF THE JEDI (1983)

"Cadillac of the Skies" from EMPIRE OF THE SUN (1987)

"Only the Penitant Will Pass" from IJ & THE LAST CRUSADE (1989)

"Star of Bethlehem" from HOME ALONE (1990)

"You are the Pan" from HOOK (1991)

"Remembrances" from SCHINDLER'S LIST (1993)

"Journey to the Island" from JURASSIC PARK (1993 - majestic variation)

"Meeting With Mao" from NIXON (1995)

"Duel of the Fates" from STAR WARS: THE PHANTOM MENACE (1999 - majestic variation)

"Angela's Prayer" from ANGELA'S ASHES (1999)

Well, I guess you've got the clue by now. All these excerpts, ranging more than 30 years showcase a style in Williams' music that, in my opinion, is both vastly underrated and neglected. It's why I love him so much, and will continue to, because whenever you suspect his creative well has been drained, Williams serves us something from up his magical sleeve that is both captivating and aweinspiring.

But more importantly, it's a sound that INSPIRES - whether you're an artist or not, and that is truly the gift of a man who posesses almost religious powers himself....

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2006 - 1:11 PM   
 By:   Tall Guy   (Member)

Hi Thor

I've often noticed your liking for this aspect of JW's music, and lazily accepted your description of it as "religious", without really giving it too much thought.

Reading your post above, I resolved finally to make an effort to play some of the tracks you specified to pin down the exact sound. Some fo them I can conjure adequately without playing them, and I dug out the CDs of Angela's Ashes and Nixon to hear the pieces you quoted.

It's pretty clear to me that these tracks do have a definite style - and it's one that I enjoy also. What I'm not sure about is your description of them as "religious". I know you're not going to abandon a word that you've used assiduously for several years, but I thought I'd offer my two penn'orth. Also, these things mean different things to the ears of different folk, so I can't argue with your use of the word.

But I think I'd call them pastoral, myself. Some of them are more overtly "churchy" than others, with the use of choir in Duel of the Fates, for example. Maybe "spiritual" would be a suitable word to cover the middle ground? Although that probably doesn't cover all the tracks you cited either.

There's a connection between our words, of course, as "pastoral" represents rural life, and the idea of a shepherd looking after a flock, which is a recurrent theme in the bible. Clergy are "pastors" in some areas.

These are just random thoughts, really, and in no way a disagreement with your concept; just a development of my musings spurred by your post. If any others spring to mind, I might well be back.

C

 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2006 - 1:34 PM   
 By:   WesllDeckers   (Member)

Maybe "spiritual" would be a suitable word to cover the middle ground?

I'd go with spiritual.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2006 - 6:28 PM   
 By:   Hurdy Gurdy   (Member)

Spiritual, Religious or Pastoral...they're all good descriptions of the music Thor is describing. I also think Spiritual is the most apt description.
BTW, Thor, check out a theme from Bobby Jones Stroke of Genius by James Horner for a most 'Religious' experience. It would have been a great theme for Gibson's Passion/Christ film (had he done it).

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2006 - 6:41 PM   
 By:   The_Mark_of_Score-O   (Member)

I am just now listening to "Ressurection", a glorious piece of music from John Debney's PASSION OF THE CHRIST (love it when the choir takes over after the initial percussion), and it spurred me to create this thread.

I wonder if it was playing on the car stereo as Mel Gibson roared through Malibu in his drunken stupor the other night, fighting with cops, and making his anti-Semitic rants.

Really sad, since Mel and I come from the same home town.

 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2006 - 7:45 PM   
 By:   First Breath   (Member)

As I may have mentioned before Thor, you should check out The Prayer Cycle by Jonathan Elias. You may like it.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 31, 2006 - 12:13 AM   
 By:   Adam S.   (Member)

I’m not religious but I agree with you, Thor, that these tracks make for great music. Cinque’s Theme from Amisatd is another that could be added to the list, IMO. It accompanies the scene where Cinque is explaining the bible to his friend and JW infuses the piece with a strong religious feeling.

I’m not sure it has to be in a minor key though that does usually seem to be the case. You mentioned Journey to the Island and that crucial scene where they first encounter the dinosaurs is very religious music and in a major key. I love that music because he’s able to generate such a sense of awe as the characters act as though they’re humble before God. Star of Bethleham to me is one of his most religious and one of my favorites. Especially with the full choir version, and even blocking out the lyrics, the piece oozes religiosity - full of reverance, beauty and mystery.

- Adam

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 31, 2006 - 2:05 AM   
 By:   Alex Klein   (Member)

Thor,
I know you don't enjoy Barry that much, but of what i understand from your Religious Sound concept, it does seem to me that the composer has plenty to offer.

Alex

 
 Posted:   Jul 31, 2006 - 4:40 AM   
 By:   Jehannum   (Member)

Thor, could you give any non-Williams examples of what you mean? I'm not familiar with any of the cues you listed in your first post.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 31, 2006 - 6:02 AM   
 By:   The_Mark_of_Score-O   (Member)

Perhaps the most "religious" sound I've ever heard in a film is the motiv Hugo Friedhofer devised for the Atomic Bomb in ABOVE AND BEYOND (seriously!).

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 31, 2006 - 9:27 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Thor,
I know you don't enjoy Barry that much, but of what i understand from your Religious Sound concept, it does seem to me that the composer has plenty to offer.


Really? I'm afraid I haven't found any so far.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 31, 2006 - 9:34 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Thor, could you give any non-Williams examples of what you mean? I'm not familiar with any of the cues you listed in your first post.

Alright:

"End Titles" from SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION
"Bud on the Ledge" from THE ABYSS
"The Wedding" from WYATT EARP
"Funeral Pyre" from CONAN THE BARBARIAN - if memory serves
Certain parts of AGONY AND THE ECSTASY
"John Merrick and Psalm" from THE ELEPHANT MAN

I think selected works by Vaughan-Williams, Elgar, Delerue and Morricone would also qualify.

As far the word itself is concerned, I agree that 'spiritual' would probably be better (since the sound isn't tied to any particular religion). But I have been using the term for so long now that it's in my established vocabulary. Also, you'll notice that some of the tracks go beyond the classical pastoral "British" sound (i.e. the more majestic pieces). Then there's tallguy's link with pastoral/rural and the biblical. Many of the chords and melodies in the particular woodwind/minor-mode compositions of Williams resemble traditional Christian church psalms.

NP: BATMAN AND ROBIN (Goldenthal)

 
 Posted:   Jul 31, 2006 - 9:44 AM   
 By:   Jehannum   (Member)

I think you might like Elmer Bernstein's Marie Ward. I love the influence of Christian and Jewish religious music in scores too.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 31, 2006 - 10:07 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

I think you might like Elmer Bernstein's Marie Ward. I love the influence of Christian and Jewish religious music in scores too.

Thanks for the recommendation.

I should also point out that I don't like all music that has a "religious" stamp on it. For example, although THE SONG OF BERNADETTE has some nice, religious-sounding music - much of it is too "high-pitched" and clicheed. Plus, there's too much of it on the 2CD. Same with THE GREATEST STORY EVER TOLD (I always play the original soundtrack rerecording, never the two discs with complete score). Regarding the "high-pitchedness" and clichee, I feel the same way about "The Second Coming" from THE FINAL CONFLICT. Doesn't do much for me. Goldsmith has never really captured this sound, IMO.

And some of that New Age Yanni/Secret Garden-type stuff is also too clichéed and void, IMO ("oh, let's all get in touch with nature, let's hold hands and sing cumbaya my lord while we listen to birds chirping and rivers flow").

Just to get this into perspective/define it.

NP: BATMAN AND ROBIN (Goldenthal)

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 31, 2006 - 1:03 PM   
 By:   Timmer   (Member)

Thor,
I know you don't enjoy Barry that much, but of what i understand from your Religious Sound concept, it does seem to me that the composer has plenty to offer.

Alex


Definitely in some scores Alex, particularly his glorious scores for THe Lion In Winter and The Last Valley.

And Thor, must I once again mention the name of a particular 20th century English composer of incredible reknown whose "religiosity" sound is the epithany of what you want and without whom, John Williams would not have that sound in his work at all!

Nah, I won't mention itwink

 
 Posted:   Jul 31, 2006 - 1:14 PM   
 By:   Mike Esssss   (Member)

Given things we've talked about in the past, Thor, I'm surprised it took so long for this thread to come about. smile

I absolutely agree here, especially as it pertains to Williams. It's my favorite thing he does, with those heavy strings.

For what it's worth, I usually describe the sound as liturgical, just because to me it seems more directly related to observing religion rather than religion itself, as a hymn might be.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 31, 2006 - 5:15 PM   
 By:   Cricket853   (Member)

For that true "religious" sound, you need look no further than Alan Hovhaness, one of the most prolific orchestral composers of the 20th century. No, he did not do filmscores, but is works are the epitome of that spiritual sound. Works like "The Holy City", "Psalm and Fugue", "City of Light", "Mt. St. Helens" and "Mysterious Mountain" are truly astounding. In fact, in speaking of his Mysterious Mountain symphony, the composer said that "mounains are symbols, like pyramids, of man's attempt to know God...symbolic meeting places between the mundane and spiritual world."

Whether you call it "religious", "spiritual" or as I like to refer to it, "inspirational", Hovhaness music is a pure joy to behold.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 31, 2006 - 5:23 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Whether you call it "religious", "spiritual" or as I like to refer to it, "inspirational", Hovhaness music is a pure joy to behold.

Indeed. I own "Mysterious Mountain" and it falls neatly into this category.

Timmer, you'll see that I have already mentioned Vaughan-Williams above. But I guess we could also add Bruckner to the list. Then there's that AGNES OF GOD thing by Delerue that I have never been able to find.

NP: SPHERE (Goldenthal)

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 31, 2006 - 7:04 PM   
 By:   Timmer   (Member)



Indeed. I own "Mysterious Mountain" and it falls neatly into this category.

Timmer, you'll see that I have already mentioned Vaughan-Williams above. But I guess we could also add Bruckner to the list. Then there's that AGNES OF GOD thing by Delerue that I have never been able to find.

NP: SPHERE (Goldenthal)


Fair do Thorsmile

Have you not heard Agnes Of God? Even on the Varese Delerue compilations?

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 31, 2006 - 7:43 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Have you not heard Agnes Of God? Even on the Varese Delerue compilations?

Nope. I don't have the Varese compilations either (you mean those "Sessions" discs, right?).

 
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