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Posted: |
Aug 15, 2007 - 10:56 AM
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By: |
MusicMad
(Member)
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Picking up Joan's comment from the GREATS YOU DON'T LIKE thread:
"Thank goodness none of you have listed Elmer Bernstein. I really don't have quite enough money to take out a mafia contract on you."
I should like to ask you, Joan, what you consider are some of his Great works and, if you can, what are his Not-so great works - IYO.
I like a lot of EB's scores and probably rate him joint second with Maestro Morricone after John Barry for listening enjoyment.
Of the scores I have ... and have had on vinyl & tape, I would answer my own question - IMO - with:
The Magnificent Seven - the best western score ever!
+ several other westerns such as Sons Of Katie Elder, True Grit, The Comancheros
Walk On The Wild Side
From The Terrace
Gold
Mad Dog And Glory
Summer And Smoke
whilst new acquisitions of Some Came Running & The View From Pompey's Head get better ever play.
There are many others.
Less liked are:
Hoodlum
The Rainmaker
To Kill A Mockingbird (I love the theme but can't get into the score)
& one I had many, many years ago on vinyl but never kept a copy:
The Trial Of Billy Jack.
I'm awaiting Marie Ward and the double Cannon For Cordoba/From Noon Till Three.
He was often interviewed on UK radio and I always found him to be a most pleasant gentleman, often amusing/funny, always gracious.
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I thought you were calling my "mom" not-so-great, and was about to unleash some fury, but now I understand!
Careful how you word things around some of us elders. We love our Joan!
Shaun
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Posted: |
Aug 15, 2007 - 12:39 PM
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By: |
Morricone
(Member)
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I don't want to speak for Joan, but for myself Elmer, like Morricone and Goldsmith, can go into any of ten different directions. So it is important that we get the Elmer Bernstein that you like. HEAVY METAL, THE GREAT ESCAPE, THE BRIDGE AT REMAGEN and HAWAII would be a safe bets. Many offbeat scores are my favorites like THE HALLELUJAH TRAIL, THE WORLD OF HENRY ORIENT, THE GRIFTERS, THE CARETAKERS and I LOVE YOU ALICE B. TOKLAS. Sometimes I separate the jazz because it can a specialized taste: THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN ARM, SWEET SMELL OF SUCCESS, THE RAT RACE. And then there is the folky, funky sound of BABY THE RAIN MUST FALL, GOD'S LITTLE ACRE and THE LIBERATION OF L. B. JONES. And the early Wagnerian THE BUCCANEER and THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. And there is the romanticism of LOVE WITH THE PROPER STRANGER, THE AGE OF INNOCENCE, THE MIRACLE and A WALK IN THE SPRING RAIN. And I could keep going, man he did a lot. Most of the not so good stuff came from the latter part of his career.
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Posted: |
Aug 15, 2007 - 2:08 PM
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By: |
MusicMad
(Member)
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Oh dear, I definitely did hit a wrong note here ... and lead several up the garden path.
This posting was never meant to be a free-for-all of what are EB's great (& not so great) scores or what scores of EB can you recommend to me.
Sorry, but it was much more personal than that: Joan's posting on the other thread intrigued me as it implied that EB is her favourite composer - supported by her User Profile - and as I like most of EB's output (that I know) I wanted to compare likes and dislikes.
Not that I mind others contributing ... this is a free forum and I'd be the last to restrict usage. I'm sorry I gave the wrong impression.
As to Morricone's posting, I agree there are different styles, and I like most of them. Of the scores you mention I have several and I think his jazz work is exceptional. In The Man With The Golden Arm I find the difference between the jazz (storyline) and orchestral (underscore) pieces a little harsh ... by the time of Walk On The Wild Side he was blending the differing styles to perfection.
I'm less struck on The Ten Commandments (but have heard only themes so I am probably missing the whole picture) and was not inspired to get the full scores to Ghostbusters or Saturn 3. I like the full score to The Great Escape (the orchestral sound is far better than the short re-recorded album) but it is a little too repetitive in a whole play. I really like some of his smaller works such as The Caretakers, Baby The Rain Must Fall, Midas Run and although it took a while I now rate The Grifters very highly.
I also have EB's recording with the Nuremberg Symphony Orchestra of the works of Miklos Rozsa (from Jul 87), these recordings have recently been included in a MR boxed set. And I have his Chandos release of suites from the MGM musicals, arrangements by Conrad Salinger, some of which are superb.
I hope I have clarified my posting ... and intentions.
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Maybe that fellow couldn't get into TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD, but don't let that deter you, because this sensitive work is EB's masterpiece, bar none.
I'd list more, but I probably already did in one of those other old threads...
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Posted: |
Aug 16, 2007 - 9:10 AM
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By: |
joan hue
(Member)
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Hey MusicMad, don't let these jokers on the board give you a
hard time over a misplaced modifier. I have my name on a topic...Cool!
I believe that we all have individual tastes and preferences, so
my personal preferences may not match yours or others. That's okay.
I prefer rousing, thematic action music and melody; hence, I'm not much
of a listener of scores that are primarily atonal or dissonant. Also, I like composers
that are versatile, able to score any film genre. That is one of the reasons
that I adore Elmer. I can't think of a single genre (western, sci fi, romance, drama,
comedy, etc.) that he never scored. To me he is terrific at action, melody and
themes. You and I have some similar tastes (likes and dislikes), but we
also diverge on a few scores, which is just fine. I'm glad you enjoy him.
I too am also a big Barry and Morricone fan.
I'm a western fanatic and started loving his westerns with THE
MAGNIFICENT SEVEN. We all know his great main title, but I also
love his villain theme and comedic cues when McQueen and Brenner
drive the hearse down from Boot Hill. Elmer redefined the western with
his signature rhythms. He followed that score with other great westerns
like THE COMMANCHEROS, BIG JAKE, SONS FOR KATIE ELDER,
TRUE GRIT, and HALLELUJAH TRAIL. Everyone one of those scores
has amazing themes and his signature western sound. I also like his
pre-Mag Seven scores like TIN STAR, SADDLE THE WIND; also,
I like FSM's new release CANNON FOR CORDORBA, but it all really
started for me with MAG SEVEN. (I hope everyone someday gets to
hear his great theme for the TV show RIVERBOAT.)
I like his jazz for MAN WITH A GOLDEN ARM and love WALK ON THE
WILD SIDE, which is such a sensuous score.
My favorite dramatic and romantic scores are THE BUCCANEER,
ZULU DAWN, LOVE WITH A PROPER STRANGER, FROM THE TERRACE,
BABY THE RAIN MUST FALL, SUMMER AND SMOKE,
FAR FROM HEAVEN and all of THE TEN COMMANDMENTS. Of course,
his magnum opus for me is TO KILL MOCKINGBIRD. His main title
is memorable, but I also love his "Attack, Tree Treasures, and
Hey Boo" cues. I like BRIDGE AT REMAGEN, but to me his
greatest war score is THE GREAT ESCAPE. Great themes, and his
action music for Steve McQueen and his motorcycle is unsurpassed by
any composer, IMHO. Maybe it is a little too long on two CDs, but I love it.
My favorite science fiction score by Elmer is SLIPSTREAM. Bad movie
with a rousing score with an amazing main theme. I'm not a great lover of
comedy, but I did adore his score for STRIPES, but then STRIPES
sounds a little bit like a western, so obviously I'd like it. Also liked
ANIMAL HOUSE. I don't play his other comedies that often.
I got to hear a few bars of his rejected score for A RIVER RUNS
THROUGH IT, and loved the theme. Hope it is released someday.
I'd love to hear some of his other rejected scores.
To me he can score huge epics and simple, quiet, intimate dramas.
Negatives? I think it is just a matter of personal tastes.
I've never really gotten into HEAVY METAL as some of you have,
and I can't connect to SATURN 3 at all. I haven't been captivated
by THE GRIFTERS. That doesn't mean those scores
don't serve their respective movies and are not well-composed.
It is just a matter of personal taste.
Some people on this board rave about his score for the movie
RAMPAGE, but I've not heard it. And someday I hope to hear
his score for CAPTAIN AND THE KINGS which I barely remember.
I know there are many more scores out there by him that I haven't
mentioned, but I don't want this reply as long as War And Peace.
(And I still haven't had to take out a mafia contract on anyone...yet...
"Hell hath not fury like the scorn of a woman." )
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Posted: |
Aug 16, 2007 - 2:18 PM
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By: |
MusicMad
(Member)
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Hi Joan,
Very many thanks for the considered reply - as for your coda, I was brought up on that saying (in that it was one of my father's favourites, slight variation of words).
I read many threads where members compare the works of Goldsmith, Williams, Barry, etc. but I was particularly interested to get your views on EB because you rate him so highly, rather than just like a few specific scores. I recall completing one of those many questionnaires ... list your favourite composers 1 ... 10 and I remember putting EB no.2 (after John Barry). That was back in the late 70's and I don't think my views have changed despite buying / hearing hundreds of scores by both of them and many others since.
There are several titles you mention which I don't know so my EB collection is far from complete. I ought to try Ten Commandments and Zulu Dawn but the themes on the recent Silva Screen compilation don't entice me.
On the other hand, I have four copies of The Magnificent Seven score (plus numerous cover versions of the theme) and I know exactly what you mean about the Brynner/McQueen cues ... and so many others. I was whistling madly to El Toro as a 12 year old and the main theme has been in my whistling repertoire for nearly 40 years (much to any listener's annoyance).
For me, he defined the American western, more so than Tiomkin, Steiner, et al. who preceded him (I acknowledge that his is basically a variation on Aaron Copeland so perhaps that is the sound of old west for me); whilst Jerry Goldsmith has written many memorable western themes (I like them all) his scores can't hold the attention like EB's. As for John Williams, I find his works by comparison far too orchestral and whilst I love Ennio Morricone's interpretations (as with many of his fellow Europeans, mainly Italians) there's no beating the Elmer Bernstein version.
Similarly his use of jazz has been exceptional - I'd love to replace my old vinyl copy of Staccato; this TV score may come off second best against the far more commercial Peter Gunn but it has some great pieces. I've already mentioned my love of Walk On The Wild Side - ten years later he incorporates great jazz pieces into Gold.
I could go on but this is just listing titles for which I think the music is great. Like you I find him very versatile. Who could compare the delicacy of The House: After 5 Years ...with any of the rousing western scores (just hear Square Dance For Loco Horses (The Scalphunters)), the sumptiousness of From The Terrace to the finger-tapping theme from The Caretakers?
But I am intrigued: you are not alone in rating his score from To Kill A Mockingbird very highly - he said himself in interview more than once that this was his favourite theme. And the theme I like a lot but I can't keep my concentration on the score as a whole. I have owned the movie on DVD for several years - it is still in its wrapper. Perhaps the answer is to watch and so understand the score more.
My second oldest EB recordings come from the vinyl LPs: Filmharmonic '70 - he appeared with Henry Mancini, Muir Mathieson and Ron Goodwin at that inaugural event (RG's pieces were not included in the released double LP). I wore the LPs out from playing and can recall EB's selections thereon with ease: Hawaii, Walk On The Wild Side, Man With The Golden Arm, Tara's Theme, Spellbound, Exodus, The Magnificent Seven and To Kill A Mockingbird. I wish I had been there.
Thank you again for responding. I shall continue to acquire EB recordings (Marie Ward and Cannon For Cordoba/From Noon Till Three arrived today) - and I won't give up on TKAM just yet.
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