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 Posted:   Mar 18, 2009 - 10:00 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

I'm having the darndest time choosing a title! wink

During the late 1970s-early 1980s there were several scores that have a jazzy and classical bent to them. I can't really describe them except that the following works have that sound I'm interested in:

The Goodbye Girl- Grusin
An Unmarried Woman- Conti
A Little Romance- Delerue
My Bodyguard- Grusin
Author, Author!- Grusin

Dave Grusin seems to be the chief architect of this sound, which is often bright, cheery, and evoke spring or summer in NYC. What other scores have this sound?

Not to be confused with "Bustling City Cues", a thread I've started previously.

 
 Posted:   Mar 18, 2009 - 10:25 AM   
 By:   spielboy   (Member)

Tootsie - Grusin?
Pelham - Shire? (maybe the darker side of that)

 
 Posted:   Mar 18, 2009 - 11:32 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

Tootsie - Grusin?
Pelham - Shire? (maybe the darker side of that)


Definitely Tootsie. Looks like I need to get me some more Grusin!

Pelham is more what I call the "hustle and jive of the city", the dark underbelly, so to speak. It's the antithesis of what I'm looking to get.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 18, 2009 - 11:55 AM   
 By:   Howard L   (Member)

I think I know what you want (may not be original score-wise, but hey!):
http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=5829&forumID=1&archive=1

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 18, 2009 - 1:13 PM   
 By:   eriknelson   (Member)

Although it is a late 1960s score, I think Michel Legrand's main title to THE HAPPY ENDING ("Collage") might fit the bill. It definitely conveys the feeling of being in the city (although it's Denver, not New York!). Legrand's score (to my ears) was forward thinking, and seems at home in the 1970s.

The film itself was also forward thinking. I watched it recently and it seemed like the forerunner to DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES, WEEDS and other indictments of American suburbia.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 18, 2009 - 2:50 PM   
 By:   ahem   (Member)

Eyes of Laura Mars?

 
 Posted:   Mar 19, 2009 - 2:33 PM   
 By:   workingwithknives   (Member)

Although it's a 1987 score, "Surrender" (Michel Colombier) might fit the bill.

 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2012 - 1:25 PM   
 By:   lexedo   (Member)

I think Uncle Joe Shannon has some of what you seek. Romantic Comedy by Hamlisch is another (from a Boston perspective). Grusin Tootsie for sure. Mike Post's output from the period of late-70s to mid-80s. Some of the source music from Pope of Greenwich Village has this flavor. Some of Tom Scott's non-film from the period: Initimate Strangers; Apple Juice. Alot of people think TS is a "jazz" sell-out, but always remember, he started with Don Ellis - he plays on all those great live records: Monterey; Live in 3 2/3 / 4. He did all the "deep" stuff and just decided to go a different way.

 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2012 - 1:49 PM   
 By:   lexedo   (Member)

Chorus Line: Hamlisch
I Oughta Be in Pictures: Hamlisch
North Dallas Forty - from a southern midwest man's perspective
Dallas / Dynasty: Conti


If your analysis started with late-50s to early-60s, you could include Hefti's Sex and the Single Girl. And maybe this is actually the beginning of the "music" you seek.

I think the key here is identifying films where men are depicted as something other than "Duke." Men vulnerable, and or susceptible to failure. Men required to "share the landscape." On the flip-side, films with independent woman as central figures would also be worthy of a look - this is the real source of the music you seek: The simple new music of possibility.

I've looked at this type of music before from a technical perspective. Very intriguing for sure. There's a simpleness. Many themes centered on the Dominant mode. Subtle use of very few colour tones, so as to create a little tension when appropriate, but not overdone.

 
 Posted:   Jun 17, 2012 - 5:47 PM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

If your analysis started with late-50s to early-60s, you could include Hefti's Sex and the Single Girl. And maybe this is actually the beginning of the "music" you seek.

I think the key here is identifying films where men are depicted as something other than "Duke." Men vulnerable, and or susceptible to failure. Men required to "share the landscape." On the flip-side, films with independent woman as central figures would also be worthy of a look - this is the real source of the music you seek: The simple new music of possibility.


As previously mentioned, there's a "Bustling City Cues" that sort of touches on that '50-'60s sound, but those late '70s efforts by the likes of Conti, Hamlisch, and Grusin have a more stately yet buoyant feel to them. "My Bodyguard" and "The Goodbye Girl" reek of this "Late-1970s City Sound." "Arthur" does to some extent, too, now that I think about it.

Keep those recommendations coming! smile

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 18, 2012 - 12:21 AM   
 By:   TheFamousEccles   (Member)

Though it's from 1987, Delerue's "The Pick-Up Artist," has that "stately yet buoyant" aesthetic you mention, and is a good "New York in springtime" kind of score.

To go back to "Author, Author," I think Johnny Mandel's score - different as it is from Grusin's - deals with the same basic communicative ideas in a totally different fashion - it's more about the elegance and purity of the musical line, less about the busy-ness (I love Grusin's replacement score, but it's always felt like a far more hyper-active score, especially when compared to the lush, semi-autumnal quality of Mandel's). Though, there are those electric bass and rhythm section touches that lead to a curious integration of the lyrical and the metropolitan. Boy, is Johnny Mandel great.

EDIT: Because I'm apparently illiterate, I missed the part where you already mentioned "A Little Romance" in your first post. However, it might interest you to know that Delerue actually wrote original material for the sections that were later replaced with the Vivaldi guitar concerto. Stylistically and harmonically it was very similar, but there was a distinctly Deleruian style to it.

There are a few others that are on the tip of my tongue (or fingers, as the case may be) If I think of them, I'll edit this post to reflect that.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 18, 2012 - 6:22 AM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

I just watched this film, which sounds like what you're looking for: 1981's "Neil Simon's ONLY WHEN I LAUGH," with a score by David Shire. The whole score probably only has 5 or 6 cues. And the only recording is one track on the CD "David Shire At the Movies"

 
 Posted:   Jun 26, 2012 - 5:24 PM   
 By:   lexedo   (Member)

If your analysis started with late-50s to early-60s, you could include Hefti's Sex and the Single Girl. And maybe this is actually the beginning of the "music" you seek.

I think the key here is identifying films where men are depicted as something other than "Duke." Men vulnerable, and or susceptible to failure. Men required to "share the landscape." On the flip-side, films with independent woman as central figures would also be worthy of a look - this is the real source of the music you seek: The simple new music of possibility.


As previously mentioned, there's a "Bustling City Cues" that sort of touches on that '50-'60s sound, but those late '70s efforts by the likes of Conti, Hamlisch, and Grusin have a more stately yet buoyant feel to them. "My Bodyguard" and "The Goodbye Girl" reek of this "Late-1970s City Sound." "Arthur" does to some extent, too, now that I think about it.

Keep those recommendations coming! smile


I'm still thinking about this tbh. But, my point in mentioning the Hefti S&TSG was that it may have inspired what came later. I'm still thinking about this whole thing though.

 
 Posted:   Jun 27, 2012 - 7:23 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

As I mentioned before, Burt Bacharach's score to ARTHUR (1981) somehow ties in with this city sound, though it doesn't sound remotely classical, does it? Perhaps it's just a strong sense of nostalgia that has me associating it with that 1977-81 time frame.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 27, 2012 - 7:45 AM   
 By:   fleming   (Member)

"If your analysis started with late-50s to early-60s, you could include Hefti's Sex and the Single Girl. And maybe this is actually the beginning of the "music" you seek."

People like Neal Hefti, Dave Grusin, Quincy Jones and Oliver Nelson gained access to film scoring careers thanks to the precedent set by Henry Mancini.

 
 Posted:   Jun 27, 2012 - 8:54 AM   
 By:   lexedo   (Member)

I agree 100%, Flem. I wondered if some of the simpler themes in film, coupled with the "lighter jazz" approach, contributed to the music Jim's describing. Henry was writing pretty heavy stuff in the mid-60s - Arabesque and Hatari, as examples. My point was about lighter music to deal with lighter film themes specific to American cities, with a very positive feel. If you consider Moon River in C, a NY tune for sure, it has a melancholic or yearning feel bc of the Bb's and the b5's in the F-chords, and the dominant substitutions for the diminished's. I wish I could write more, but I am very busy for the next few weeks buddy.

And for JP's purposes, I believe we're looking at what is generally referred to as "smoothe jazz." Grusin, Bob James, Earl Klugh, Lee Ritenour, Dave Benoit all steady practitioners in that regard. My initial thoughts want me to attribute the growth of this in the late 70s, to early 70s Sondheim musicals, like Company and A Little Night Music, and Chick Corea's Light as a Feather from a keyboards perspective. But I'm still thinking about this one...

[edit]Fixed a sp error; forgot to say that Grusin was a band-leader for all of the guys I mentioned above. Not Benoit. Grusin's GRP Big Band is stocked w some of the finest players ever; it is amazing fare for sure, and I have them all.

 
 Posted:   Jun 27, 2012 - 7:21 PM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

And for JP's purposes, I believe we're looking at what is generally referred to as "smoothe jazz." Grusin, Bob James, Earl Klugh, Lee Ritenour, Dave Benoit all steady practitioners in that regard. My initial thoughts want me to attribute the growth of this in the late 70s, to early 70s Sondheim musicals, like Company and A Little Night Music, and Chick Corea's Light as a Feather from a keyboards perspective. But I'm still thinking about this one...

Funny thing is, as a 1990s Jazz "hipster", I was dead set against everything so-called Smooth Jazz was about. However, I was more forgiving towards '70s stuff--though I never truly embraced Fusion, as its Rock rhythm sections were a turn off--and in a film context, I was even more forgiving of a light jazz approach, given the subject matter of many of these late '70s movies.

I think the development of the Yuppie culture by mid decade helped bring about this change. After all, Bop and Free Jazz were long-since dead, as was the hippie culture. The serious and edgy movies of 1969-75 gave way to glossier fare. Just take a listen at FSM's "Coyle-Condor" release; different animals.

 
 Posted:   Jun 27, 2012 - 7:41 PM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

Here's another clip--this time with its accompanying images-- of Grusin's opening cue to My Bodyguard. Love the score and the movie was a childhood favorite of mine.

 
 Posted:   Jun 27, 2012 - 7:52 PM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

I just watched this film, which sounds like what you're looking for: 1981's "Neil Simon's ONLY WHEN I LAUGH," with a score by David Shire. The whole score probably only has 5 or 6 cues. And the only recording is one track on the CD "David Shire At the Movies"

This definitely fits into the sound. Thanks for mentioning it. Haven't seen the movie in years. Some parts of the score sound like run throughs for a sitcom of the era.



I always liked Marsha Mason. cool

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 27, 2012 - 8:08 PM   
 By:   quiller007   (Member)



NIGHT SHIFT (1982) by Burt Bacharach

Den

 
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