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 Posted:   Dec 19, 2009 - 9:59 AM   
 By:   DJ3J   (Member)

I'll be very honest that my stance on Hans Zimmer and Remote Control Productions has softened in recent times due to the fact that I generally try to keep an open mind to how film and business clash and trying to understand that aspect of it. I own many of Hans' works and I personally think he is a talented individual. His interview in the new FSM really had my stomach turning especially when he called Jon Burlingame's article rubbish.

Hans at times seems so blissfully ignorant. He talks about how much he is involved in the film making process and how he gets called in before shooting begins. How often does this TRULY happen? I wonder if it has more to do with the fact that Hans (himself or his minions) can get it done cheaply and quickly. How often do we hear about this otherwise, unless it is a frequent composer/director collaboration (like Williams/Spielberg)? He talks so casually about how the old way is gone and how he "tried" to bring it back by establishing a music department (which became MV/RCP). I even like how he had to get Horner's name in there. To me, he helped to make the film scoring situation what it is, for better or worse. It is funny how he seems to take that stance against someone who has the fortitude to call Hollywood on how it treats film scoring. I personally am happy to have someone like Jon Burlingame writing on behalf of the better talents who are fast being thrown into the background.

After listening to this interview, I fast jumped over to James Horners interview. All of a sudden, his self plagiarism and continued reuse of the danger motif seemed moot, and hearing his grand scores at the beginning and listening to his sweeping Avatar score were, for lack of a better term, music to my ears. Listening to James Horner's interview was the Pepto-Bismol to my Hans Zimmer stomach ache.

And suddenly the Avatar score itself sounds that much better.

Just my two cents.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 20, 2009 - 6:15 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

I own many of Hans' works and I personally think he is a talented individual. His interview in the new FSM really had my stomach turning especially when he called Jon Burlingame's article rubbish.

He said that? Cool. Nice to know that Hans and I are on the same wavelength!

 
 Posted:   Dec 20, 2009 - 7:04 AM   
 By:   First Breath   (Member)

I own many of Hans' works and I personally think he is a talented individual. His interview in the new FSM really had my stomach turning especially when he called Jon Burlingame's article rubbish.

He said that? Cool. Nice to know that Hans and I are on the same wavelength!


AMEN! Now we are three.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 20, 2009 - 9:41 AM   
 By:   DJ3J   (Member)

He said that? Cool. Nice to know that Hans and I are on the same wavelength!

So you disagree that composers AREN'T held in the same light that they used to?

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 20, 2009 - 11:32 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

He said that? Cool. Nice to know that Hans and I are on the same wavelength!

So you disagree that composers AREN'T held in the same light that they used to?


Yes. But let's not go there again. We had a pretty hefty discussion of that in this thread:

http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=64341&forumID=1&archive=0

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 20, 2009 - 2:01 PM   
 By:   DJ3J   (Member)

Right now I remember. Yeah, most exciting time for film music. I remember.

It also helps that Hans has this point of view when his company helped to make it this way.

 
 Posted:   Dec 20, 2009 - 3:01 PM   
 By:   Jehannum   (Member)

AMEN! Now we are three.

Well Thor's mini-me didn't really need to speak, did he?

Anyway, here's a nice photograph of the Remote Control production studios:

 
 Posted:   Dec 20, 2009 - 5:25 PM   
 By:   DavidCoscina   (Member)

Chalk one up for your side John. It's also a fact that a lot of composers in Hollywood HATE the Zimmer school of film scoring but like any strong fascist regieme, no one wants to publicly speak out and oppose it.

I'll take Horner's plagiarism any day over media ventures shit. Oh yes I said shit.

 
 Posted:   Dec 20, 2009 - 5:26 PM   
 By:   DavidCoscina   (Member)

AMEN! Now we are three.

Well Thor's mini-me didn't really need to speak, did he?

Anyway, here's a nice photograph of the Remote Control production studios:



brilliant!

BTW- give a chimp access to the kind of gear Zimmer has and even they could come up with a masterpiece. Honestly, giventhe resources and contacts that he has, there are few people on this forum that would have carved out a very nice career for themselves. Sour grapes or the truth? Methinks the latter. And half of Zimmers lackies would be nobodies with marginal skills had he not employed them.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 20, 2009 - 6:16 PM   
 By:   DJ3J   (Member)

Chalk one up for your side John. It's also a fact that a lot of composers in Hollywood HATE the Zimmer school of film scoring but like any strong fascist regieme, no one wants to publicly speak out and oppose it.

I'll take Horner's plagiarism any day over media ventures shit. Oh yes I said shit.


That is because art of any kind is about expressing what makes you unique as an individual and when the corporate film score is full of people that all sound the same then it is no wonder that those who pride themselves on uniqueness get peeved.

Of course, then there are the likes of John Powell who used it as a way to get out on his own and make a name for himself. But I also believe that the talent was there in the first place and that is why he was able to leave.

 
 Posted:   Dec 20, 2009 - 7:38 PM   
 By:   DavidCoscina   (Member)

Chalk one up for your side John. It's also a fact that a lot of composers in Hollywood HATE the Zimmer school of film scoring but like any strong fascist regieme, no one wants to publicly speak out and oppose it.

I'll take Horner's plagiarism any day over media ventures shit. Oh yes I said shit.


That is because art of any kind is about expressing what makes you unique as an individual and when the corporate film score is full of people that all sound the same then it is no wonder that those who pride themselves on uniqueness get peeved.

Of course, then there are the likes of John Powell who used it as a way to get out on his own and make a name for himself. But I also believe that the talent was there in the first place and that is why he was able to leave.


I agree. Powell is the one good thing that came out of that place.

 
 Posted:   Dec 20, 2009 - 7:39 PM   
 By:   The Mutant   (Member)

I have learned one thing over the years here at FSM: people love to hate.

Just an observation.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 20, 2009 - 7:56 PM   
 By:   DJ3J   (Member)

I have learned one thing over the years here at FSM: people love to hate.

Just an observation.


It ain't just people here. People are like that everywhere. In this instance, however, it is not a matter of "loving to hate" or even "wanting to hate", it's simply the line in the sand that most board members are either on one side or the other on.

 
 Posted:   Dec 20, 2009 - 9:58 PM   
 By:   DavidCoscina   (Member)

I have learned one thing over the years here at FSM: people love to hate.

Just an observation.


It ain't just people here. People are like that everywhere. In this instance, however, it is not a matter of "loving to hate" or even "wanting to hate", it's simply the line in the sand that most board members are either on one side or the other on.


Yes, I must agree with you again John.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 21, 2009 - 2:54 AM   
 By:   TownerFan   (Member)

What I found a bit dubious is that Zimmer escaped the sense of the question posed to him. Burlingame's article wasn't a critique to the "Zimmer method". It was a frank look at the state of things in which Hollywood film composers are working nowadays (very limited time, shrinking budgets etc.). Zimmer speaks as if everything is ideal and perfect, but it's clear that several other composers think the opposite.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 21, 2009 - 3:50 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

brilliant!

BTW- give a chimp access to the kind of gear Zimmer has and even they could come up with a masterpiece. Honestly, giventhe resources and contacts that he has, there are few people on this forum that would have carved out a very nice career for themselves. Sour grapes or the truth? Methinks the latter. And half of Zimmers lackies would be nobodies with marginal skills had he not employed them.


He, he...why don't you tell us what you REALLY feel, David?

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 21, 2009 - 3:51 AM   
 By:   Hercule Platini   (Member)

Chalk one up for your side John. It's also a fact that a lot of composers in Hollywood HATE the Zimmer school of film scoring but like any strong fascist regieme, no one wants to publicly speak out and oppose it.

I'll take Horner's plagiarism any day over media ventures shit. Oh yes I said shit.


That is because art of any kind is about expressing what makes you unique as an individual and when the corporate film score is full of people that all sound the same then it is no wonder that those who pride themselves on uniqueness get peeved.


What has art got to do with it? Art is about expressing your own vision, not bolstering someone else's, and the principal function of a film score is to support the vision of the filmmakers. The best film composers are/were able to put something of themselves into their scores: Goldsmith did, Bernstein did, Williams does, Silvestri does, Horner used to, Barry still could if he wanted to. Many others are either suppressing their own voices for the sake of the film, or they've nothing much to express in the first place.

Does it matter that THE ROCK was written by four or five people? Does it matter that there are more additional composers on PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN than there were pirates? Yes, they may be corporate film scores, but they're corporate films, they're sure as hell not art. And the scores work in the films, even if on the most basic level. If they're any good to listen to in the car ten years later, that's a bonus. If they're still expressing your unique and individual personality, that's a bonus. But it's all secondary and tertiary to servicing the film and the filmmaker's intentions. If you tell them you want to use four bass harmonicas playing minor sevenths in an echo chamber because you want to artistically express in music the traumas of the Rob Schneider character, they'll look at you like you've grown a third leg or something. They're not looking for innovation or originality these days, they're looking for something that just does the job. And Zimmer (plus whoever) does the job. It might not be Rozsa, it might not be Korngold, it might not be North. But it doesn't have to be. That's why they hire him.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 21, 2009 - 4:05 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Well put, Hercule. It doesn't make any sense to offer criticism of films and scores like PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN by using criteria from the arthouse scene or Golden Age aesthetics or whatever. It's a fun CONTEMPORARY popcorn ride movie, and the score answers to that - with hookable melodies, prog rock harmonies and chord shifts and an "aesthetic of coolness".

 
 Posted:   Dec 21, 2009 - 5:01 AM   
 By:   First Breath   (Member)


BTW- give a chimp access to the kind of gear Zimmer has and even they could come up with a masterpiece. Honestly, giventhe resources and contacts that he has, there are few people on this forum that would have carved out a very nice career for themselves. Sour grapes or the truth? Methinks the latter. And half of Zimmers lackies would be nobodies with marginal skills had he not employed them.


Clearly the words of a composer who ended up as a failure. Not everyone can have a good film music career, Mr. Coscina.

 
 Posted:   Dec 21, 2009 - 5:03 AM   
 By:   First Breath   (Member)



Well Thor's mini-me didn't really need to speak, did he?


Nor did ugly-boy.

 
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