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 Posted:   Feb 25, 2014 - 5:30 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

Well, it's been a long, long time since I last played it, but I remember being bored by two cues that have been mentioned above (the dripping cave track and the ponderous boot cue), so they would be the first to go!

I know those cues would stay put in my benevolent film music dictatorship. Of course it's all taste and opinion, my dear Kev, but do revisit the music. Who knows, maybe you'll change your mind.

The action cues are all excellent but it's those quiet, reflective compositions that I like best. A lot of that gets lost due to the over-the-top action the franchise is known for, though I disagree about there being any jingoism, at least as far as the second film is concerned, but Rambo III has more of those reflective themes than the other two. It's a shame that isn't really well represented in the film itself, so I prefer Rambo III as a stand-alone listen over my usual preference to a score in context.

Oh, I do go on. Please forgive an old man's rambling...

 
 Posted:   Feb 25, 2014 - 8:36 AM   
 By:   Jeff Bond   (Member)

The ponderous boot cue is one of my favorite Goldsmith action cues. smile

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 25, 2014 - 9:00 AM   
 By:   Kev McGann   (Member)

Well, one mans ponderous boot can be another's ass-kicking trainer, I suppose! wink
I'm gonna dig out my CD and revisit this score for the first time in many moons, to see if anything has changed, to my mind (I'll probably end up editing it down to about 35 minutes now, knowing my changing tastes!).

 
 Posted:   Feb 25, 2014 - 9:15 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Rambo III may be my favorite of the trilogy. If I had the time I'd probably edit out a substantial few repetitive minutes of Preparations but not get rid of it entirely. Aside from that there's not a single cue I'd lose in this masterful symphonic score. Not as heavy on the action as its predecessor(s), but when there is action it's magnificent. And it's got so much else to offer. Easily more gorgeous stuff in this than any other of the trilogy. The finale/end credits track is one of the best of Goldsmith's career.

Unfortunately it's also by far the worst performed of the three scores. smile

But Kev, what I think may have been holding you up is the sound quality. I didn't rate this highly at all based on a CDr I had of Intrada's original expanded release. Thankfully they produced a remastered version some time in the past 8 years or so, and it's like night and day. If you don't already have that version I hope you take a chance and pick it up!

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Feb 25, 2014 - 11:22 AM   
 By:   Tom Servo   (Member)

I'm also a big fan of the aforementioned cues "The Cave" and "The Boot", plus "The Long Climb". This series, along with THE OMEN, is one in which you can't really go wrong with any of the Goldsmith scores. Each is unique and still tied together with the other scores in the series. He brought a lot of humanity to the RAMBO series that a lesser composer might not have. Goldsmith honed in on any small character moment (the most amount found in FIRST BLOOD)and imbued those scenes with enough sincerity which then bled into the action material, making for a compelling emotional score from start to finish.

 
 Posted:   Feb 25, 2014 - 11:49 AM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

Thankfully they produced a remastered version some time in the past 8 years or so, and it's like night and day. If you don't already have that version I hope you take a chance and pick it up!


I upgraded to the remastered release but I wouldn't exactly call it night and day, I didn't detect such a huge improvement in sound (maybe a tad higher volume).

Aside from "the game" I love the trumpet playing at 2:43 in "Another Time", the propulsive middle of "Flaming Village", the sneaking around cues "Night Entry" and "The Cave" (such a great moment at 2:47), "Night Flight" is simply amazing and my favorite action cue of the series, the opening buildup of "Going Down" is funny and enjoyable (mostly because of the moment it scores in the movie) and I also dig the ending of "The Long Climb". Everything after "the boot" is the point where boredom sets in for me as a lot of those cues feel repetitive, too much of the same and the score feels like it's overstaying its welcome; I would equate this to the climactic cues not being nowhere near as poignant as "night flight". For those who do stay up to "I'll Stay", I salute you. wink

 
 Posted:   Feb 25, 2014 - 1:41 PM   
 By:   GOLDSMITHDAKING   (Member)

The whole Rambo 3 album is a masterpiece as far as im concerned.Its my favourite out of all four Rambo scores.Both terrific lush new themes and exciting action material.The film itself is also highly underrated.Its a solid balls to the wall action flick ( The final battle in particular is spectacular ).

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 26, 2014 - 3:57 AM   
 By:   Kev McGann   (Member)

Okay, I haven't ventured into my Goldsmith cave yet, to dig out my CD's (I know I have the Scotti Bros issue and the first Intrada issue, but I don't recall buying the upgraded version, guess I'll find out soon) but another thing that always bugged me was the Preparations track on both albums.
The cool knocking percussion effect at the start of the cue is too short on the Scotti Bros and too long on the expanded release (it also always reminds me of a piece of music that was used on an old Cricket Highlights show that my dad watched on the BBC).
I may be the epitome of 'there's no pleasing some people' wink

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2014 - 9:09 AM   
 By:   Kev McGann   (Member)

Okay. It turns out I never upgraded to the last Intrada remastered edition.
Yavar calls it 'night and day' compared to the previous/first Intrada edition, while Francis says 'it's maybe a bit louder'.
Now I know people hear with different ears, so what do others think in relation to the remastered edition. Do I need to pony up $20 for the newer edition?

 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2014 - 9:12 AM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

Okay. It turns out I never upgraded to the last Intrada remastered edition.
Yavar calls it 'night and day' compared to the previous/first Intrada edition, while Francis says 'it's maybe a bit louder'.

Now I know people hear with different ears, so what do others think in relation to the remastered edition. Do I need to pony up $20 for the newer edition?


I've wondered this for years myself, having the original score release and finding the sound quality quite "muddy", especially given how great Intrada usually sounds.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2014 - 9:41 AM   
 By:   Kev McGann   (Member)

LeHah, that's Robert Patrick from T2 in your avatar, is it not?
What film is it from?

 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2014 - 9:57 AM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

LeHah, that's Robert Patrick from T2 in your avatar, is it not? What film is it from?

Double Dragon!

(The movie is terrible in so many ways that its not even worth laughing at but it has one or two moments that made me chuckle, including that shot I used for my avatar as Patrick is pushed into a cop car at the end of the film.)

 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2014 - 10:20 AM   
 By:   Ed   (Member)

The sound in the remaster is louder, more like recently-mastered CDs. It is also a bit clearer in the highs and with a bit more punch in the very low end, probably through some intelligent EQing. Is it better? Yes, certainly. Not quite night and day, though. But keep in mind that it was recorded in Hungary in the 80s so it won't be quite up to the sonic or performance standards of Hollywood orchestras of the time.

And it is still one of my favorite Goldsmith scores. It's perfect.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2014 - 10:46 AM   
 By:   Luc Van der Eeken   (Member)

Still waiting for the definitive edition of Rambo II myself, probably my favorite action score, ever!

 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2014 - 11:43 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

While there seems to be *near* 100% consensus that the remastered Intrada Rambo III sounds better than their original issue, there isn't as strong of a consensus about it being "night and day" as I said. Here are two previous threads on the topic:

"Rambo III Expanded vs. Rambo III Expanded!" from 2010:
http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=74295&forumID=1&archive=0

Here are some quotes from people who agree with me:

Spymaster: "night and day better...stunning" (sorry to rip off your term, Spymaster) smile
scrapsly: "well worth the upgrade...sounds fantastic and easy to tell when compared"
The Mutant: "Yep. I have both versions and I can tell you the latest version is superior in sound quality. The original one was very quiet and hissy in comparison. "
Sarge: "I recently got the new version and it's a definite improvement. "
MikeJ: "...this sounds much better, in my opinion. Worth the upgrade and worth giving your old album to somebody who has never heard the music. "

And finally Dave Norris, the person who started that thread asking for advice, posted, "I on advice of my friends here,also picked up the re-mastered version over Xmas. There is a definite improvement in sound quality & I'm very pleased that I picked this up"

and an older thread from 2005, when the reissue came out:
http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=25334&forumID=1&archive=1

those who agree with me say:
Moonie: "What?!! you dont notice the sound difference?
I notice it on my cheep boom box.
There is a big huge difference. I even did a cd to cd compairison.
You hear everything right down to the little smaller (for lack of a better way to put it)sounds.
Listen to it again, theres a difference."
riotengine: "I used to own the old version, I hear things in the new recording I never noticed before."
Spymaster (again): "The new RAMBO III disc is a LOT better than the old one. The sound is more "present", more powerful, more detailed, more alive (and yes, louder!)
It sounds like a Mike Ross-Trevor recording should, i.e. absolutely splendid.
I guarantee that if you upgrade you will not be disappointed sound-wise. Highly, highly recommended."
The Mutant (again): "I've always felt the sound on the old Intrada wasn't the greatest. This new version is MUCH more clear and significantly louder. Hearing "Night Fight" in all it's glory is worth the price alone. "

On the other hand, some other people in those threads, like this one, can't tell much of a difference for some reason. Maybe one's equipment makes a difference...I usually listen on ear buds. But Moonie could tell the difference on his boom box.

One final point from that early thread, made by Kenneth English: "Another thing I'd like to point out -- and, YES, I know this isn't really a reason to rebuy but it might help some of the fence-sitters -- is that the art and packaging of the new Rambo III disc is just beautiful. Lightyears ahead of the older CD. This may not mean much to others, but I enjoy the aesthetics of a well-done disc's presentation almost as much as the music itself (which is why FSM's CDs are always such a joy -- probably the best-presented soundtrack CDs on the market). "

The only disappointment for me with the reissue is that the liner notes themselves, though much more attractive looking, are the same content as their earlier release, ie. no thick booklet about the film and making of the score as with Intrada's First Blood reissue. But this came out in 2005 before Lukas had fully influenced all the other labels to compete with him with thick content-filled notes. smile

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 27, 2014 - 9:06 PM   
 By:   MikeP   (Member)

Okay. It turns out I never upgraded to the last Intrada remastered edition.
Yavar calls it 'night and day' compared to the previous/first Intrada edition, while Francis says 'it's maybe a bit louder'.
Now I know people hear with different ears, so what do others think in relation to the remastered edition. Do I need to pony up $20 for the newer edition?



It isn't as much of a revelation as the remastered First Blood 2 disc set Intrada released a few years back. That one was stunning. However... with Rambo 3 it IS a noticeable upgrade.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 29, 2014 - 1:41 PM   
 By:   Kev McGann   (Member)

Okay, I upgraded my Intrada to the remastered version and I have to say, it's tons better.
I'm hearing things like never before, as opposed to the old Scotti Bros and first Intrada release.
It really is a revelation and I would recommend the newer version to any fans of this score.

Oh and Jeff Bond, I had confused The Boot with other cues from that area of the disc (Night Entry, Under Over, Long Climb, The Cave) and it's not at all ponderous or boring...quite the opposite in fact. My bad. I can see why you like it so much. It's quite the epitome of Goldsmith kickin ass!

 
 Posted:   Apr 29, 2014 - 1:55 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

You're one of US now, Kev! smile

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Apr 29, 2014 - 4:58 PM   
 By:   TominAtl   (Member)

I love the first 1:30 of "Flaming Village". Cues like that made me such a huge fan of his. And The Game is great too.

I love all 3 scores but I would rank them as:

1.First Blood - a masterpiece
2.Rambo: First Blood Part 2 - my favorite action score of his: put the 3 cues together of Bowed Down/Pilot Over/Village Raid and Helicopter Fight together and its balls to the wall glory.
3.Rambo 3 - a robust and thundering score.

 
 Posted:   Apr 29, 2014 - 10:09 PM   
 By:   WillGoldNewtonBarryGrusin   (Member)

I love the first 1:30 of "Flaming Village". Cues like that made me such a huge fan of his. And The Game is great too.

I love all 3 scores but I would rank them as:

1.First Blood - a masterpiece
2.Rambo: First Blood Part 2 - my favorite action score of his: put the 3 cues together of Bowed Down/Pilot Over/Village Raid and Helicopter Fight together and its balls to the wall glory.
3.Rambo 3 - a robust and thundering score.


My ranking, too!

What makes them so great as action scores? The melancholic main theme. Action only works if one can relate to the inner workings of the main character. And while parts 2 and 3 turned Rambo into a comic book hero, they still featured him as a sad, disappointed and mistreated outcast.

 
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