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Other question: does anyone know where the "Peacemaker" track, OST #5, came from? It's not on the DVD at all, it seems to have its origins only on the OST, and it's made up of pieces of music not found anywhere in the film.
It was Hans' "Ideas Suite" which he recorded, and released on the OST.
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Posted: |
May 20, 2014 - 3:41 PM
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Per
(Member)
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Not surprisingly both known versions (version in film and on old unofficial) of "Get Me Authorized" (as it's called on this new release) are not included. Hopefully it's the film version. Most likely it's not. But if it is, why not include the other ?
The alternate version with vocal's by Lisbeth Scott do sound interesting though.
Why the entire old album is included I have no idea ... While there might be some minor differences in the mix (for the most part where the cues have been combined), they mostly don't really offer anything different. And why the suite have been labeled as (or included from the) "original album version", and placed after the other album tracks, I also don't know why. Regardless of it being not used at all, it's still a part of the score, and I would certainly have placed this as the last one before the bonus tracks, or at least as the first bonus track, as a "The Peacemaker Suite" or something.
And as for the combination of cues ... still don't know the point in adding more minutes into a cue already 11+ or 9+ (etc.) min. in length... Some cues might not sound too bad when fading into another ... but there's obviously a couple I wouldn't do ... one being adding the 45 sec "Checkpoint" cue at the beginning of "Helicopter Chase" .. can hardly think that sounds any good ... And also, the 2 last cues ... I've always loved the (clean) beginning of the last cue ... Why combine that with the previous cue (which in itself have a good ending) ?
Overall, from the tracklist (and lengths) it seems it covers pretty much everything (both in film and from the old unofficial version .. without knowing exactly which mixes are included), maybe with the exception of an alt mix of "Dusan's Village" (which is pretty much the same, just with a minor difference at the end). Although both are used in the film. There's one short piece in the film I'm a bit unsure about what is exactly, right before "Dusan’s Confession" ... but it may be just some repeated from something else maybe.
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Posted: |
May 20, 2014 - 7:02 PM
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By: |
ClaytonMG
(Member)
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Not surprisingly both known versions (version in film and on old unofficial) of "Get Me Authorized" (as it's called on this new release) are not included. Hopefully it's the film version. Most likely it's not. But if it is, why not include the other ?
The alternate version with vocal's by Lisbeth Scott do sound interesting though.
Why the entire old album is included I have no idea ... While there might be some minor differences in the mix (for the most part where the cues have been combined), they mostly don't really offer anything different. And why the suite have been labeled as (or included from the) "original album version", and placed after the other album tracks, I also don't know why. Regardless of it being not used at all, it's still a part of the score, and I would certainly have placed this as the last one before the bonus tracks, or at least as the first bonus track, as a "The Peacemaker Suite" or something.
And as for the combination of cues ... still don't know the point in adding more minutes into a cue already 11+ or 9+ (etc.) min. in length... Some cues might not sound too bad when fading into another ... but there's obviously a couple I wouldn't do ... one being adding the 45 sec "Checkpoint" cue at the beginning of "Helicopter Chase" .. can hardly think that sounds any good ... And also, the 2 last cues ... I've always loved the (clean) beginning of the last cue ... Why combine that with the previous cue (which in itself have a good ending) ?
Overall, from the tracklist (and lengths) it seems it covers pretty much everything (both in film and from the old unofficial version .. without knowing exactly which mixes are included), maybe with the exception of an alt mix of "Dusan's Village" (which is pretty much the same, just with a minor difference at the end). Although both are used in the film. There's one short piece in the film I'm a bit unsure about what is exactly, right before "Dusan’s Confession" ... but it may be just some repeated from something else maybe.
How do you know both versions aren't included? Maybe one is the "old" unofficial version and one is the film version (one featuring Mamak Khadem and the other featuring Lisbeth Scott). I honestly don't know, I'm just guessing here since the Lisbeth Scott piece isn't new. I know the film version's vocal part was mixed fairly low (plus with the rain in the scene) plus I think it made the vocal part in the flashbacks a little more powerful.
There's also a bit at the end credits that I am not sure if it was included. I'm not even sure if it was in the film or not but it may be the "Dusan's Confession" cue you're referring to. It'd be about a minute and a half long if I remember correctly.
This makes me want to watch this film again. Despite the reviews, I actually enjoyed it. It was kind of a more unique look at chasing terrorists. At least I thought so.
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Posted: |
May 21, 2014 - 9:04 AM
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By: |
Per
(Member)
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This is "Zimmer" what I like to hear, but I have a silly question. Where are all 5 minutes from the "End Credits"?
where indeed??
My first though would be here....
http://www.hans-zimmer.com/index.php?rub=disco&id=314
I guess it have to be explained in detail for some to understand...
The end credits, or at least the music used in the end credits are as following:
1. From ca. 0'33 - end of "Finale / End Credits" (CD2-09) (to use the tracklist listed on hans-zimmer.com for the old unofficial) (= last part of CD2-03, "Dr. Kelly Got 10 More", on LLL). This runs around 10 seconds longer in the film, but, and while I don't guarantee it, it may be just the very end that is repeated to fill up the space or something. (EDIT: not the last part, but the beginning, as well as a small portion in the middle, is repeated)
2. From ca. 4'07 - 5'46 on "Train" (CD1-02) on hans-zimmer.com tracklist (= since the first cue is combined with it, around 40 seconds later into the track CD1-01, "Vassily’s Dilemma", on LLL). While this is very similar to the "Suite", I don't think that is the one used. Although it's a long time since I checked this out, so I can't be entirely sure.
3. The entire track, more or less, "Your Need People Need You" (CD1-18) on hans-zimmer.com tracklist (= last part of CD1-08, "Dusan’s Confession" on LLL)
As for why an edit of this is not offered as a bonus track ? ... no point, since it will only be just that, an edit. Nothing more.
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Posted: |
May 22, 2014 - 5:30 PM
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By: |
ClaytonMG
(Member)
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How do you know both versions aren't included? Maybe one is the "old" unofficial version and one is the film version (one featuring Mamak Khadem and the other featuring Lisbeth Scott).
There's also a bit at the end credits that I am not sure if it was included. I'm not even sure if it was in the film or not but it may be the "Dusan's Confession" cue you're referring to.
Because the versions on the old unofficial and in film have both vocals by Mamak Khadem (I think anyway) ... also since how I've understood it, the version Lisbeth Scott did, was not heard at all (neither on album or in the film (?)).
If I got it right, the end credits (or the rest of it, the beginning is the last half of "Dr. Kelly Got 10 More" ... weird track title, I know) is just a montage of the cues from the film; ca. 1min 40s from "Vassily’s Dilemma", and the remaining 1 min is the entire "Dusan's Confession"...
As for the piece heard in the film right before "Dusan's Confession", it's just 15 seconds long ... and for all I know it might be just something taken from somewhere else (which do happen), but haven't had the time to look into it yet.
I was thinking the film version is Mamak Khadem as well, but I'm just hoping I'm wrong (or that it's included here). I was thinking maybe Lisbeth Scott just did a really good impression or something haha... But my guess is that they'd label it as the film version if that was the case.
I'm anxious for my copy to arrive to hear how this one specific cue was handled! 
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Posted: |
May 23, 2014 - 7:39 AM
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By: |
Per
(Member)
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Seems like I was wrong, the version on the old unofficial version appear to be the Lisbeth Scott one ... I guess I just assumed that the version she featured on hadn't been heard at all, in any form ... I'll admit I never really heard any major difference between the voices though.
Anyway, the "non-alt" version is indeed the film version ,which is really cool !
On the other side ... I still don't see the point in combining, eh, I mean placing several cues into the same track, when there's in many cases no combination at all (not just talking about this release in specific). But more or less silence between (or a quick fade-out and in again)... Don't get me wrong, I actually prefer there's silence between (for obvious reasons), but why not just keep the trackmark for the cues, instead of making a mess out of it. I guess maybe it's done because it looks better on paper, but that's about it...
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Posted: |
May 23, 2014 - 7:44 AM
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By: |
Tom Servo
(Member)
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Seems like I was wrong, the version on the old unofficial version appear to be the Lisbeth Scott one ... I guess I just assumed that the version she featured on hadn't been heard at all, in any form ... I'll admit I never really heard any major difference between the voices though.
Anyway, the "non-alt" version is indeed the film version ,which is really cool !
On the other side ... I still don't see the point in combining, eh, I mean placing several cues into the same track, when there's in many cases no combination at all (not just talking about this release in specific). But more or less silence between (or a quick fade-out and in again)... Don't get me wrong, I actually prefer there's silence between (for obvious reasons), but why not just keep the trackmark for the cues, instead of making a mess out of it. I guess maybe it's done because it looks better on paper, but that's about it...
It's also done so there aren't 45 separate tracks to index on a CD. And to then find space to list these on the inlay card and in the liner notes. And because grouping them into tracks that function more as "suites" makes the whole thing more listenable in a musical sense. I absolutely want it to be done with film scores, as I hate soundtracks that simply consist of countless short tracks. It's the most jarring way to listen to anything.
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Posted: |
May 23, 2014 - 8:02 AM
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By: |
Gutenberg
(Member)
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Seems like I was wrong, the version on the old unofficial version appear to be the Lisbeth Scott one ... I guess I just assumed that the version she featured on hadn't been heard at all, in any form ... I'll admit I never really heard any major difference between the voices though.
Anyway, the "non-alt" version is indeed the film version ,which is really cool !
On the other side ... I still don't see the point in combining, eh, I mean placing several cues into the same track, when there's in many cases no combination at all (not just talking about this release in specific). But more or less silence between (or a quick fade-out and in again)... Don't get me wrong, I actually prefer there's silence between (for obvious reasons), but why not just keep the trackmark for the cues, instead of making a mess out of it. I guess maybe it's done because it looks better on paper, but that's about it...
I guess you got your copy already?
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Posted: |
May 23, 2014 - 8:27 AM
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By: |
Tom Servo
(Member)
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It's also done so there aren't 45 separate tracks to index on a CD. And to then find space to list these on the inlay card and in the liner notes. And because grouping them into tracks that function more as "suites" makes the whole thing more listenable in a musical sense. I absolutely want it to be done with film scores, as I hate soundtracks that simply consist of countless short tracks. It's the most jarring way to listen to anything.
A CD can hold 99 tracks, at least, so that's just a silly thing to say. Besides, it wouldn't have been more than 41 tracks  (I'm nitpicking, I know).
Each and every track (with the exception of track CD1-15) includes a name for every cue within the track, so the space issue would just be regarding some more numbers...
As for the placing the cues into "suites" makes for a better musical listen !? No. If you place several short cues into one long track, it will still be just that; one long track consisting of several short cues... To use something I heard now yesterday or something, in a TV show or something; "You can put a tuxedo on a goat... but it will still be a goat".
Yes, I know that a CD can hold at least 99 tracks, but it's not ideal and you know, ask Jim Titus or Dan Goldwasser if they would want to do the art direction for an album that has so many tracks. They do great job making the artwork pleasing to the eye and finding space for so many track titles is untenable. Only fans making bootlegs at home could care less about how junky listing so many tracks is.
As for scores being more listenable in this fashion, I point to exhibit A, John Williams. The albums he crafts from his scores are brilliant and the most listenable versions of the music. And combining shorter cues can still feel like a logical, musical progression. Case in point - CLOSE ENCOUNTERS. The original album presentation I find to be the best for listening pleasure, while the complete edition I just can't make it through. It's too much "stop & start"... 45 seconds of a track and that's it... a minute long track and that's it... another minute track and that's it. It's too freaking jarring. Once this music is divorced from the film and put on CD, the first priority should be, is this listenable?
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