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 Posted:   Jun 19, 2014 - 1:16 PM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

I agree with the choices of DEAD AGAIN & STAR TREK VI THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY.

Both worked very well indeed as albums, especially ST6 - which for me is the perfect album flow of all the Star Trek movie albums. And Dead Again benefits from a shorter, tighter presentation.

I'll also register disagreement over the excellence of WRATH OF KHAN.

I agree that the original album is great right until the last track. But skipping any/all of the quiet music attending Spock's death, space burial, etc. - the album seemed to forget the emotional payoff of the score. I think that going right from the Mutara battle to the finale/end credits is actually jarring.

It may play fine musically, but soundtrack albums should always be a blend of pure musicality and dramatic flow, and I think KHAN stumbles at the end on the dramatic side.

(And yes, this is the same complaint I made earlier about Goldsmith, so I guess I've discovered another pet peeve!)

 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2014 - 7:01 PM   
 By:   Steve H   (Member)

I've always loved the original Southern Cross edition of John Barry's High Road To China. Its a beautiful album and flows perfectly. The artwork front and back is superb. I have this album framed and on display.

 
 Posted:   Jun 20, 2014 - 5:50 AM   
 By:   Other Tallguy   (Member)

I agree that the original album is great right until the last track. But skipping any/all of the quiet music attending Spock's death, space burial, etc. - the album seemed to forget the emotional payoff of the score. I think that going right from the Mutara battle to the finale/end credits is actually jarring.


That's several minutes of new music. What do you leave off of side 2? Or assuming you move, say Battle in the Mutara Nebula to side 1, what do you bump off of side one?

 
 Posted:   Jun 20, 2014 - 6:21 AM   
 By:   Scott M (Oldsmith)   (Member)

I actually think the finale to the Genesis Countdown was a very nice way to segue into the end credits. It didn't go from blistering battle music to the epilogue, it got very wondrous and sad. I always felt the LP was really great for an album presentation.

Now, Star Trek III....that score got shafted in the latter half (for whatever legitimate reasons).

 
 Posted:   Jun 20, 2014 - 8:21 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

I'm really enjoying Star Wars double album again. I alternate between that and the C&C. I love both versions.

 
 Posted:   Jun 20, 2014 - 8:49 AM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

I actually think the finale to the Genesis Countdown was a very nice way to segue into the end credits. It didn't go from blistering battle music to the epilogue, it got very wondrous and sad. I always felt the LP was really great for an album presentation.

Scott M - thanks for the correction ... of course KHAN does wind down after the genesis planet destruction, and it is a quiet transition to the finale.

For me, though, it sounds almost too gently resolved, and that's what I think does a disservice to the score. The movie ends with the death of an iconic character, and I think the music as presented on the album owes it to us to honor that death.

Instead, Genesis Countdown ends just before - with a sense of suspense, almost dread. That then transitions to a warmly major fanfare and a sense of resolution as the finale begins. Adding Spock's Death would have been perfect as a bridge to the finale, even though it would also have loaded up Spock's theme a lot at the end - but so what! The guy deserves the attention!

I think the FSM version is essential just for restoring this.

 
 Posted:   Jun 20, 2014 - 9:09 AM   
 By:   Scott M (Oldsmith)   (Member)

Perhaps they included his voiceover as a way of acknowledging that and giving the character that attention.

The FSM expansion was a compete joygasm.

 
 Posted:   Jun 20, 2014 - 9:13 AM   
 By:   Other Tallguy   (Member)

I'm really enjoying Star Wars double album again. I alternate between that and the C&C. I love both versions.

I finally got a digital version of the Empire LP. Some are original LP tracks (Rebels at Bay), some are from the original CD, some are from the box set, and a couple (The Heroics of Luke and Han, The Departure of Boba Fett) are my own edits! I'm loving it!

I might get crazy and break it into 4 playlists so I have to "change sides". There was something to be said for neat little 20 minute programs.

 
 Posted:   Jun 20, 2014 - 9:22 AM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

I finally got a digital version of the Empire LP....I might get crazy and break it into 4 playlists so I have to "change sides". There was something to be said for neat little 20 minute programs.

I would never go to the trouble of doing this kind of thing myself, but I'd love to hear it. You've just made me realize that Empire is the one original album version that I really miss.

 
 Posted:   Jun 20, 2014 - 9:50 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

I'm really enjoying Star Wars double album again. I alternate between that and the C&C. I love both versions.

I finally got a digital version of the Empire LP. Some are original LP tracks (Rebels at Bay), some are from the original CD, some are from the box set, and a couple (The Heroics of Luke and Han, The Departure of Boba Fett) are my own edits! I'm loving it!

I might get crazy and break it into 4 playlists so I have to "change sides". There was something to be said for neat little 20 minute programs.


That's a funny idea! big grin

Whats not so funny, it seems adding noise, distortions, and clicks onto pop songs is the new "cool" thing nowadays. They purposely make the recordings sound bad.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2014 - 5:38 PM   
 By:   thommy   (Member)

For me

The Fury.
Et
Jaws

Are unbeatable in their original LP incarnation. I wish Williams would mostly rerecord every score for CD.

Damian, the omen 2 and Capricorn 1 come to mind as other great rerecordings by Goldsmith.

Also love the three original star wars LP's They make a wonderfull journey back to back.

the great trainrobbery in the Tomlinson mix version. GREAT !

I mostly enjoy every Barry album, but more Barry is always better as far as i'm concerned.

The original Conan the barbarian is a wonderfull program within the LP limit.

 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2014 - 7:33 PM   
 By:   Adm Naismith   (Member)

The albums Bear McCreary puts together for the various series he has worked on are hardly C&C, but are probably the best albums of film/TV music I have heard in a a long time. McCreary really know how to put together an album.


ST-TMP
ST II
ST III
These are really remarkable albums.

I appreciate the complete ST-TMP, but I still have a hard time even getting through the C&Cs of II and III. This is some of the music that got me into film music to begin with, so the original releases are fairly burned into my brain and still highly satisfying.

 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2014 - 7:50 PM   
 By:   Sirusjr   (Member)

I wonder how many of these albums are preferred not because they are really better presentations of the music but because they are what you knew for a long time and got used to. For most albums that are now getting expanded I didn't really listen to the albums heavily when they were originally released because I wasn't buying albums at that time. So now that a C&C release is available it is usually my first introduction to the music.

What I'm wondering is if you gave these "amazing albums" and C&C versions to someone who hadn't listened to either of the versions before if they would pick out the same set of highlights as are listed here. So the question is, do you prefer the albums on certain versions because they are truly better or because you just happened to listen to them for so long that it is what you know?

 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2014 - 10:02 PM   
 By:   Ray Worley   (Member)

I ordered a helicopter once after I found one that was surprisingly cheap. It was delivered but instead of a helicopter I got a box full of parts. I phoned up the guy who sold it and he said "You've got everything there to assemble a helicopter, also a load more things too - how great is that! You can build it just the way you want it!" I went on to the helicopter forum and all the guys there said they don't buy these things because they want helicopters, they really like the boxes they come in and they're so much better than the old days when you ordered a helicopter and some other guy had decided how it should be assembled and you didn't even get the other stuff that you don't actually need. And here I am left with boxes full of parts but I've no idea how to build a helicopter.

I know its an attempt at humor, but this is a completely ridiculous analogy. C & C albums represent the film score as it appears in the film or sometimes as the composer originally meant for it to appear. As a complete and unified musical whole. In other words, the complete helicopter with all parts fully assembled...sometimes with spare or optional parts. It's the A & A versions that crash due to missing pieces.

But to the point of the thread. There are VERY few original albums that I prefer to the later C&C versions. In most cases, I never play the original album presentation again once I have the C&C.
One of the few is E.T...I do prefer it to the film version. This is especially rare for me because I dislike most of John Williams' album arrangements. The C&C versions are almost always superior listening experiences to his jumbled-up albums. The original CD of EXTREME PREJUDICE is a bit better than the expansion too, but I can't think of more. There may be some that I will feel that way about after a C&C is released but I doubt it.

 
 Posted:   Jun 22, 2014 - 10:13 PM   
 By:   Ray Worley   (Member)

I wonder how many of these albums are preferred not because they are really better presentations of the music but because they are what you knew for a long time and got used to. For most albums that are now getting expanded I didn't really listen to the albums heavily when they were originally released because I wasn't buying albums at that time. So now that a C&C release is available it is usually my first introduction to the music.

What I'm wondering is if you gave these "amazing albums" and C&C versions to someone who hadn't listened to either of the versions before if they would pick out the same set of highlights as are listed here. So the question is, do you prefer the albums on certain versions because they are truly better or because you just happened to listen to them for so long that it is what you know?


As someone who collected LPs for many years before C&C CDs were available, I can address this from my perspective. I never "got used" to the albums, even the ones I played constantly, in the sense that I preferred them. Many times I felt an album was disappointing because it left out so much great music (EL CID , HOW THE WEST WAS WON) or because the re-recording or arrangements were inferior (TRUE GRIT). So I was ecstatic when I finally got the music I always wanted...usually never to return to the original album that I had played so often before.
To me A&A albums are like reading Reader's Digest abridgments of books like WAR AND PEACE or MOBY DICK.

 
 Posted:   Jun 23, 2014 - 8:39 AM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

I wonder how many of these albums are preferred not because they are really better presentations of the music but because they are what you knew for a long time and got used to.

This is a fair point. In some ways it's impossible to say for sure as someone who spent a long, long time with the original albums before expansions came along.

But I know there were many albums over the years that I didn't much care for, or cherry picked what I liked. So the ones I'm pointing out were more exceptions than the rule.

And the fact is that scores are often quite repetitive, which works great in films but can be tiresome in albums that feature every blessed note.

That's why the suite approach - which most of these albums were - is sometimes a better showcase for the music as a listening experience.

Meaning not is there music you miss because you heard it in the film, but is there music you miss because it's crucial to the musical sense of the suite/album.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 23, 2014 - 9:03 AM   
 By:   CinemaScope   (Member)

I wonder how many of these albums are preferred not because they are really better presentations of the music but because they are what you knew for a long time and got used to.

Yup, very good point. There's nothing us old timers like more than when a much loved LP finally make it to CD. There's a rock/pop CD being released in about six weeks time, & that makes all my favourite rock/pop LP's on CD at last. Maybe around ten classical albums, & ten to fifteen soundtrack albums & that's me done. There are expanded soundtracks that blow away the original album: The Great Escape, Ben-Hur, Grand Prix, Gui La Testa & more than a few others, but I prefer a lot of original albums as well. It goes on a title by title basis really.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 23, 2014 - 3:58 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

A&A albums rule! C&C albums suck! That's all you need to know.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 23, 2014 - 4:11 PM   
 By:   DarthBrett   (Member)

Sentimentality definitely plays a part in this. I would bet money that if somebody never heard the original album, there would be cues they'd absolutely fall in love with on the C&C that would be missing on the original.

Nostalgia and sentimental value play a big role when it comes to listening to music for a lot of people. Many have fond memories of buying the LP when it came out.

But on that same token, as much as I love the original Star Wars LP and how much of it is seared into my young memory. I absolutely prefer hearing every cue on the newer C&C SE release.

In the end, it's all opinion and totally subjective. I personally prefer hearing everything available and in film order on the album. So while I can understand why some love A&A albums, they are definitely not what I prefer at all. But that's fine, as long as we keep getting C&C albums, too.

Some of us like blue, some of us like green. Some prefer winter, some prefer spring, And some of us love A&As and some us love C&Cs. In the end, I guess it really doesn't matter.

 
 Posted:   Jun 24, 2014 - 9:23 AM   
 By:   Anabel Boyer   (Member)



Intrada did a wonderful job while releasing the complete score in glorious stereo but i must confess i enjoy very much going back to the exquisite Lp album with its fun dialogue snippets in it. An indeed overall fun listen!

 
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