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 Posted:   Jul 28, 2013 - 11:45 AM   
 By:   Ford A. Thaxton   (Member)

This person didn't wish to discuss ANYTHING beyond feeling self-important.Ford A. Thaxton

You are way off base. .


No, you are...

This entire matter wouldn't have existed if the poster had just emailed Mr. Kimmel directly his opinions and concerns DIRECTLY before putting them up in a public forum just to stroke his ego like you.

Next.

Ford A. Thaxton

 
 Posted:   Jul 28, 2013 - 12:03 PM   
 By:   spielboy   (Member)

I'm with Fordy.

people should send their opinions via private mails.... so then we can close this public forum and go listen to all those CDs we have stored in our homes.

hoping this reply gets some attention (for my own ego)

sincerely yours,

no-name

smile

 
 Posted:   Jul 28, 2013 - 12:04 PM   
 By:   Miles (MerM)   (Member)

Yes, by this time one does grow suspicious of these out of the woodwork posts and the people posting. We've had these threads before and we'll have them again, and they do tend to be about exactly the same thing, said in exactly the same way. Not saying that's the case here and not saying it isn't, because I don't know. However, I'm happy to respond point by point to his first post to the best of my ability.

+10 for classiness and giving the OP the benefit of the doubt.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 28, 2013 - 12:04 PM   
 By:   haineshisway   (Member)

Hi Bruce,

Though unsolicited, I want to tell you what I like and don't like about your releases. I believe it is always worthwhile to hear what the customer says.

I love the scores you are releasing--the type of "Golden Age" scores that for the most part have gone undeservedly out of favor. I like the scores you choose, the sound quality, and the cleaning up you do with them.

But here's where I think you could improve:

1. Graphic design--please pardon me for putting this way: the images are just slapped on the page without any attention to what pleases the eye

2. Lack of color--I understand sometimes color stills don't exist. But even when the score is from a color film you print the booklet in B&W. These days color printing costs no more than black and white--so I don't understand.

3. Notes: Frankly, there's not enough detail about the movie itself and even the track listings. What relationship do some of the bonus cues--that aren't marked as original versions or film versions--have to do with the entire score? Are they just source cues or outtakes? Are they rejected cues? Where do they belong in the narrative of the film? As an aside, timings would be nice, too (though we can see them when we put on the disc).

Most younger people will never return from the world of downloads--and it may not be possible to entice them back to CDs one can hold and keep. But for the people who I believe buy your releases...who appreciate CDs...looking at them...holding them...the CD functions as something beyond the music--well into the preservation of memory. To look at images...to read words...and to hear music evoke cherished moments that have meant--and continue to mean--so much.

In the old days, film companies understood that and--along with their road show films--put out colorful booklets that enhanced or prepared audiences for an experience.

In no way am I trying to take away from the immeasurable service you provide to those of us who lived or still prefer living in the Golden Age. We are grateful to have the music and to remember the films they accompanied. And, I know for you, this has to be a true labor of love. However, if memory serves me correctly, I recall Lukas saying that for him putting out a CD was not just about the music. The Booklet...the notes...the images...they were all part of the experience he wanted to recapture--a CD one would want to treasure.

I believe you came close to that with your recent release of Laura. I hope you will find the time, the effort and possibly the money to do it again ( I know you're not getting rich off these projects). It would make the experience of listening your CDS so much richer...filling them with the memories they so richly deserve.

Respectfully,

Charles

PS: Any chance of releasing Victor Young's The Uninvited (soon to be issued in Blu Ray) or Love Letters?


First off, I am glad you enjoy the music. The music is the thing - always has been, always will be. For me and for Kritzerland, releasing the best-sounding version of a score is always the goal. To address your points:

1. This is, of course, very subjective. My designer, I think, is as good as it gets. He slaps nothing anywhere - he has a great eye and I've been using him for close to twenty years, first at Varese then at Fynsworth Alley and now at Kritzerland. While you are certainly entitled to not like his work, I would simply disagree. It's all in the eye of the beholder, but when I hear from the studios involved in the licensing how much they love our packaging, we're at least pleasing them. Certainly we're not going to please everyone - can't be done.

2. Lack of color. One would simply have to question what releases you have, because when the release warrants it and we have the material, we do color. We have done plenty of full color booklets. Carrie, The Missouri Breaks, Follies, are three that come instantly to mind, and there are many other examples. However, you are quite wrong about the cost - full color in the booklet is always more - considerably so. And occasionally the profit margin is so small on some releases that even spending the extra on color is the difference between losing and winning. Hope that helps you understand. I will say that if we have great color stills we usually do go to color, i.e. The Missouri Breaks and Carrie and Follies.

3. Notes. Sorry, we do what we do, whether I'm writing them or others are. Other labels do other things. We have our own "thing" - some like it, some don't. To reiterate: Certainly we're not going to please everyone - can't be done.

"In the old days, film companies understood that and--along with their road show films--put out colorful booklets that enhanced or prepared audiences for an experience.

In no way am I trying to take away from the immeasurable service you provide to those of us who lived or still prefer living in the Golden Age. We are grateful to have the music and to remember the films they accompanied. And, I know for you, this has to be a true labor of love. However, if memory serves me correctly, I recall Lukas saying that for him putting out a CD was not just about the music. The Booklet...the notes...the images...they were all part of the experience he wanted to recapture--a CD one would want to treasure."

In the old days, soundtrack LPs came out. These featured no booklets, usually no notes other than perhaps a cursory paragraph or two, and that was that. In the old days of CDs, Varese Sarabande, the leading film music label, put out four page booklets for most things - no notes for most things. Ultimately for certain titles they began doing more, but we're talking about the old days. Lukas is Lukas. Other labels are who their owners are. For me, there is one reason and one reason only to treasure a CD - the music contained on it. While I do happen to think our packaging is excellent, once again - can't please everyone. I make the kinds of CDs that I like to have. To try and please everyone is a lesson in futility, because as soon as you please one person, you displease another. One can only be true to oneself or one's company and hope people go along for the ride.

My position on liner notes, track-by-track listings, and timings isn't a secret. I have offered several times to put the timings on the item page at Kritzerland, and the last time I did someone actually got offensive about it, so that won't be happening any time soon smile

 
 Posted:   Jul 28, 2013 - 12:12 PM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)

Who is "haineshisway"??

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 28, 2013 - 12:14 PM   
 By:   haineshisway   (Member)

One other thing: As Ford and Deglia suggest, e-mails are a lovely way to offer comments. It's more personal, the interaction can be fun and interesting. I get a lot of e-mails (in the old days I even got lots of snail mail) - I enjoy getting e-mails and I respond as cogently and as quickly as I can. But on a board like this, given our history with a handful of trolls who love to come on and cause us any kind of trouble they can (we're pretty much alone in this, label-wise, and it makes us feel special), people who've seen it happen time and again do get suspicious.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 28, 2013 - 12:16 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

Who is "haineshisway"??


Some say he's from Bakersfield.

Nice place, by the way. And good people.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 28, 2013 - 12:18 PM   
 By:   waxmanman35   (Member)

This person didn't wish to discuss ANYTHING beyond feeling self-important.Ford A. Thaxton

You are way off base. .


No, you are...

This entire matter wouldn't have existed if the poster had just emailed Mr. Kimmel directly his opinions and concerns DIRECTLY before putting them up in a public forum just to stroke his ego like you.

Next.

Ford A. Thaxton


This is a forum, not a support group. I don't know why you keep going off about "ego," unless it's that you have nothing substantial to contribute and can only respond by slinging mud. If you disagree with the poster, as I did, why don't you simply state your own opinion on the question, assuming you have one and can express it.

I'll repeat mine: what's important to me is the music, not a souvenir booklet.

 
 Posted:   Jul 28, 2013 - 12:19 PM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)

Who is "haineshisway"??


Some say he's from Bakersfield.

Nice place, by the way. And good people.



YOR tought that posting with a fake name was a no-no according to FAT message board rules...

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 28, 2013 - 12:23 PM   
 By:   dan the man   (Member)

WHY DON'T YOR DISAPPEAR?

 
 Posted:   Jul 28, 2013 - 12:26 PM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)

WHY DON'T YOR DISAPPEAR?

YOR is not magic.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 28, 2013 - 12:33 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

YOR is not magic.


Ock have some magicks in him. Sometimes Ock come into room and he be invisible to others.

It come in handy... from observational point of view.

 
 Posted:   Jul 28, 2013 - 12:38 PM   
 By:   Tester   (Member)

While I'm usually quite picky with the graphic design in the cd releases, I don't think Kritzerland artwork and packaging is bad. Yes, It's outdated, the colors look washed out and the inside design is too simple for today standards, but it quite fits (I think intentionally) the kind of CDs they do, wich are reeditions of classic LP releases.

 
 Posted:   Jul 28, 2013 - 12:39 PM   
 By:   Tester   (Member)

sorry, dp

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 28, 2013 - 12:47 PM   
 By:   haineshisway   (Member)

While I'm usually quite picky with the graphic design in the cd releases, I don't think Kritzerland artwork and packaging is bad. Yes, It's outdated, the colors look washed out and the inside design is too simple for today standards, but it quite fits (I think intentionally) the kind of CDs they do, wich are reeditions of classic LP releases.

Can you give me an example of "washed out" colors? Because unless the image we're given has washed out colors, I'm at a loss and a complete loss to think of one example of a booklet or inlay card with washed out colors that is not inherent in what image is being used - unless it was a specific choice to do it, which would be obvious. Just trying to understand what you mean. As to "today's standards" I leave those to others, whatever they may be. smile For example, I'm looking at Missouri Breaks and Carrie as I type this and I see beautifully saturated and wonderful colors on each. Go know.

 
 Posted:   Jul 28, 2013 - 1:23 PM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)

I'm at a loss and a complete loss to think of one example of a booklet or inlay card with washed out colors that is not inherent in what image is being used


I think what might give some the impression of color being "washed out" is the use of an overall background tone, say cream or gray, that the designer often uses under the rest of the imagery. That tends to soften the overall contrast and vibrancy of the other colors a bit.
My impression of Kritzerland's covers is usually that they have a beige-like leaning with laid-back color which to me is fine because it kind of gives an "older" feel to the classic images. But I can see why some people would think they are toned down compared to other reproductions of the same posters etc. If that's the "house look", then so be it. It's a good sight better and more tasteful than, for example, any of the garish, amateur-looking graphics I have seen from Prometheus (except when Tadlow has done the design for them).

 
 Posted:   Jul 28, 2013 - 1:38 PM   
 By:   edwzoomom   (Member)

I am going to take a chance and stick my big toe into this and pray that I don't lose the entire limb in the process.

It is obvious that I am a Bruce Kimmel fan from previous posts - not a fawner but a fan. I did not know who in God's name Bruce was when I bought my first Kritzerland release which was about 3-4 years ago. I became aware of his connection to the label after I was advised to contact him about a release that was out of reach to me. I received a prompt and gracious reply. Was I impressed? Yes I was and I should have been - this is a busy guy with a busy schedule. I am one of probably a slew of people who contact him daily. Okay, enough about that.

The appropriate way to go on this would have been a private email or letter. The Contact Tab is right there on the website. The email address and snail mail address are plainly displayed. I am not going to comment on the entire content of the open letter but to lump the likes into one small paragraph and then number the dislikes into 3 paragraphs seems a bit lopsided to me. Regarding the comments "...the images are just slapped on the page without any attention to what pleases the eye" and "I believe you came close to that with your recent release of Laura. I hope you will find the time, the effort and possibly the money to do it again", I see this as sniping at the person rather critiquing the product. It is my conjecture that if this letter as it currently appears had been sent to Bruce directly, a respectful and prompt response would have been delivered to the author by Bruce.

I do not know the author at all and fully support the freedom to post on this board anonymously. I do it regularly and will continue to do so. However, when you title a thread as "An Open Letter to Bruce Kimmel" you are wittingly tossing a flaming bag of crap into a crowd. There are some in the crowd just waiting to pick up the flaming bundle and run with it. That is exactly what has happened here. To hide your intent behind a Gomer Pyle - like "golly" is disingenuous.

The ironic bit of this open letter is the "complimentary closing" of "Respectfully," I am not sure that respect was the intended tone of this letter.

If this entire letter had been posted here with a different topic title, without overuse of the personal pronouns "I" and "you" and was minus the salutation and complimentary closing, it would have appeared as a perfectly acceptable opinion piece. It would have garnered numerous nays and yays but certainly would have appeared more sincere and less snarky.

I did get a chuckle out of the postscript though - seriously

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 28, 2013 - 2:59 PM   
 By:   DavidCorkum   (Member)

Frankly, if the labels just put out CDs with plain white covers, with the name and composer scratched with crayon on the front, I'd still get the ones I wanted. Nice packaging is appreciated, but isn't the point. I'm not trying to give anyone ideas, though. FSM might be the nicest. The spines look attractive and legible lined up together. Kind of like Criterion Collection discs.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 28, 2013 - 3:09 PM   
 By:   henry   (Member)

I don't have any complaints or suggestions for record producers, you guys are doing a fine job! But this thread has certainly been an interesting read to be honest.smile

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 28, 2013 - 3:42 PM   
 By:   deglialberi   (Member)

I've decided that instead of posting minor complaints to the labels over various issues I've decided to go right to the composers themselves. So I emailed Alan Silvestri and referenced a track on Red 2 in which I said I wasn't too pleased with his use of the french horn. Then I wrote a message to John Williams saying he overused the flute in Stanley and Iris. The hi-hat cymbal on Morricone's Untouchables was not to my liking. So, I'm contacting him, too. There are plenty of others who are on my list.

How do you think this will go over? I'm certain they'll have no problem with my suggestions. Hey, I'm the audience. I pay for their work and I would like it more to my taste.

-Ned

 
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