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Got my copy of COCOON yesterday. What a joy! The sound is indeed brilliant. This really is one of the highpoints of the earlier part of Horner's career - indeed, of his entire career. It is so full of wonder and life.
I giggled a little at one line of the notes, though. In the first paragraph, it states that this music was "surely some of the best of his early shooting-star career."
Usually "shooting star" used as an adjective refers to something that is brilliant for a moment, then burns out. Perhaps "rising star" would have been more appropriate.
I'm going to pop this CD back in again today.
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One of the best works of Horner, no doubt about that
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Reeve: Re: "I’m so sad to read that Horner’s Big Band Music is not your “cup of tea”
Sorry to make you sad. Please dry your tears. I happen to like Big Band music and have lots of Glenn Miller, Tommy Dorsey, Jimmy Dorsey, Benny Goodwin, Harry James, and many others from the period. But I have more of it than I'll ever play, and when I spent the money on a new CD of "Cocoon" (when I already had the original release), I didn't want a significant part of it to be taken up with a genre of music I didn't need nor want. I've had a chance to play the new "Cocoon" a few times, and while I almost always skip James Horner's Big Band-like creations, they aren't that big a part of the CD and I can certainly live with them. If those are important to you, I'm happy for you. But that's not why I ordered it.
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For what it's worth - John Williams walked off the "Superman II" project when Richard Lester asked him to use THE SAME MUSIC . . .
It's worth exactly nothing without documentation.
What is your source for this?
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Posted: |
Nov 7, 2013 - 7:36 PM
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By: |
Reeve
(Member)
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I can't find it now, because the “Superman Cinema” website has been taken down. It was mentioned a number of times, but exclusively in an interview with Ilya Salkind. I have a print out of that interview. In most articles, you will read that John Williams had creative differences with Director Richard Lester, and at other times you will read that Williams did not return because Richard Donner got fired, but in reality, he did go inside a room to see the film with Lester, and then he walked out of the room saying “I cannot work with this man!” I have the print out of the interview. When I read it, obviously - to me, it was (and still is) a big deal, because that means, we would have had at least two Superman films with “Music By John Williams”.
Richard Lester’s frequent collaborator Ken Thorne was brought in to "adapt" Williams existing themes, because he was asked to do so, not because he is isn't talented etc.
Quite frankly; it is usually the Directors choice: They are the ones who communicate with the Composers and ask them to write specific scores; for example “using the same themes and motifs” as in the original film etc. It is usually the case of what the Director wants, not because the composer is lazy etc.
The reason we don't get memorable themes in today's films is because it's what the director instructs the composer. These days – they don't want music to take full attention of what is seen on screen. Let's move on now, away from this “heat” and talk about COCOON. I have not received my copy yet, so I can't comment on the CD.
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Posted: |
Nov 7, 2013 - 8:21 PM
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By: |
Matt S.
(Member)
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I can't find it now, because the “Superman Cinema” website has been taken down. It was mentioned a number of times, but exclusively in an interview with Ilya Salkind. I have a print out of that interview. In most articles, you will read that John Williams had creative differences with Director Richard Lester, and at other times you will read that Williams did not return because Richard Donner got fired, but in reality, he did go inside a room to see the film with Lester, and then he walked out of the room saying “I cannot work with this man!” I have the print out of the interview. When I read it, obviously - to me, it was (and still is) a big deal, because that means, we would have had at least two Superman films with “Music By John Williams”.
Richard Lester’s frequent collaborator Ken Thorne was brought in to "adapt" Williams existing themes, because he was asked to do so, not because he is isn't talented etc.
That story was written up in FSM's Superman book with the Blue Box (page 62). It doesn't say exactly why Williams couldn't work with Lester. However, the emphasis you added, "I cannot work with this man!" was never there. Ilya Salkind claims Williams was very calm and professional about the whole matter.
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"Richard Lester asked him to use THE SAME MUSIC . . ."
I'm sure you understand that it is this particular sentence which really troubles me. Unless you can quote someone else saying this, and direct me to a specific source, I have to assume you made it up.
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"I would imagine"?!
It seems pretty obvious to me, just from the bare-bones facts of movie history, without any imaginative conjecture born of wishful thinking, that the ONLY reason Thorne did "Superman II" is because Williams did not. The only reason he reworked Williams' material from the first film is because Williams did not return to score the second one.
What else do you need to know?
Unless you witnessed the meeting between Lester and Williams, or can quote someone who did, there's no need to sprinkle little turds of misinformation on our message board, and dress it up with smart-sounding phrases like "quite frankly."
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Posted: |
Nov 7, 2013 - 11:35 PM
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By: |
Reeve
(Member)
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I really don't know the point as to why I need to prove myself?
I don't get any money or satisfaction out of this - all I get is a headache and sore eyes.
Here is the Salkind Interview, below, and here is the link on the Superman Homepage! http://www.supermanhomepage.com/movies/movies.php?topic=interview-salkind
"The sequel lost one more participant from the original - conductor John Williams whose original score was adapted for "Superman II" by Ken Thorne. Salkind recalled that Williams was set to return until an unfortunate happenstance. "John Williams came to London, we paid [for] the trip. He saw the [second] film. I made a mistake. I let him alone with Lester in the screening room and somehow Lester and him did not hit it off at all. At the end of the screening, John said 'Ilya can I speak to you?' He said 'Look I cannot work with this man.' That was it."
You need to scroll down to THE SUPERMAN III DVD cover,
and read a couple of paragraphs above that,
it is basically in the middle section as you scroll.... OK?
It was on the Superman Cinema Website originally..... I hope I can get COCOON: THE RETURN remastered, as that was the original topic that stated this argument, only because people want to be smart asses!
As for the PROOF of Lester wanting the same music, that is why he hired Ken Thorne, because of his "adapting" skills - I don't gain anything by proving my "point". It is enough proof that they paid for John Williams trip etc, and that his price wasn't "that" high - It was Richard Lester he couldn't work with, it had nothing to do with money.
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Would somebody kindly take us BACK to Intrada's "Cocoon" release before this was taken down an entirely different road that, as far as I can tell, has nothing to do with Horner NOR "Cocoon." It looks like the principal culprit here was Aussie Reeve and his repeated comments about "Superman II" and John Williams and Richard Lester and so much else that belongs in a different thread. Geeze, folks.
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I really don't know the point as to why I need to prove myself?
All you needed to prove was this:
"Richard Lester asked him to use THE SAME MUSIC . . ."
You typed it, and as I suspected, you cannot prove it.
Want to "go Rand Paul on us," now, so we'll "leave you the hell alone"? No problem.
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