Film Score Monthly
FSM HOME MESSAGE BOARD FSM CDs FSM ONLINE RESOURCES FUN STUFF ABOUT US  SEARCH FSM   
Search Terms: 
Search Within:   search tips 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2013 - 5:45 AM   
 By:   OnlyGoodMusic   (Member)

So, what's your point? wink big grin

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2013 - 7:00 AM   
 By:   Reeve   (Member)

If you did buy it.... then - you don't mind hearing the end title again - the Cocoon And Star Trek End Titles are identical - but we still appreciate having them.

Why do people buy the Tadlow RE Recordings of Conan The Barbarian - (performed by The City of Prague Philharmonic Orchestra)

and then they go ahead and buy the Intrada release?

It's exactly the same music?

Because, you can play the original album one month - and then the next month you can play the sequel for example. You don't have to play the same album every month.

Or - if you are like me - you COMBINE THEM to make one big score!

An example would be..... using the Cocoon: The Return "End Titles" at the beginning of my play-list, with the original End Titles being put at the very end. That is just an example of what I do.

I just did a very detailed analysis of FSMs "Knight Rider" CD - and made that CD flow so sweetly. Because the track-listing is so muddled up. It does go by film order, but the tracks do not flow properly, so I made a play-list to make those 5 episodes sound like one.

It's a hobby of mine I like to do when I have the time. As mentioned by me earlier, I find the Cocoon running time rather short, and I would like more of it - I am thirsty for quality music (or as you know "Only Good Music").

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2013 - 7:22 AM   
 By:   Jim Doherty   (Member)

Got my copy of COCOON yesterday. What a joy! The sound is indeed brilliant. This really is one of the highpoints of the earlier part of Horner's career - indeed, of his entire career. It is so full of wonder and life.

I giggled a little at one line of the notes, though. In the first paragraph, it states that this music was "surely some of the best of his early shooting-star career."
Usually "shooting star" used as an adjective refers to something that is brilliant for a moment, then burns out. Perhaps "rising star" would have been more appropriate.

I'm going to pop this CD back in again today.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2013 - 9:35 AM   
 By:   TerraEpon   (Member)


Why do people buy the Tadlow RE Recordings of Conan The Barbarian - (performed by The City of Prague Philharmonic Orchestra)

and then they go ahead and buy the Intrada release?.


Any lover of classical music would laugh in the face of anyone who asked that question.

 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2013 - 9:43 AM   
 By:   Sirusjr   (Member)


Why do people buy the Tadlow RE Recordings of Conan The Barbarian - (performed by The City of Prague Philharmonic Orchestra)

and then they go ahead and buy the Intrada release?.


Any lover of classical music would laugh in the face of anyone who asked that question.


Yeah, there is a huge difference between having the same music performed by two different orchestras and Horner recording the same cue on two different scores.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2013 - 9:58 AM   
 By:   captain_avis   (Member)

Please Intrada, release “Cocoon: The Return” as a follow up.

Please Intrada, DON'T! It's a very weak follow-up, in fact it's just a thinner rehash of the original, which, despite one very obvious rip-off of Britten's Sinfonia da Requiem (and probably of a few other pieces as well, it's Horner after all) is one of his finest and most continuously listenable scores.


Where is this rip-off? Is it the section of The Chase that also appears in Wrath of Khan's Genesis Countdown?

Chris

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2013 - 10:41 AM   
 By:   SoldierofFortune   (Member)

One of the best works of Horner, no doubt about that

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2013 - 11:01 AM   
 By:   Reeve   (Member)

I try not to swear - no matter how much some of these responses piss me off.... But I will ask this question....

Why do some of you have to be smart asses? I looks like "someone" out there needs to grow up!

The question in regards to "Conan"
It was my own question, and at the same time - I have given you a detailed response.... my response has got nothing to do with the Composer....

It is about having more music to listen to.

So then - why do you have to go back and criticize me? You should respect the fact THAT I DO LOVE MY MUSIC - What is wrong with Horner using the same music in Cocoon: The Return? or Star Trek III - or The Legend Of Zorro for that matter?

For what it's worth - John Williams walked off the "Superman II" project when Richard Lester asked him to use THE SAME MUSIC - A lot of you out there prefer the score to Superman II than to Superman IV!

Why?

Here I go again giving answers to the questions that I ask..... Because most of you dislike the fourth Superman film! You are not judging the music, but the quality of the film. Ken Thorne brought in his own "magic" to part III - and you still preferred his score to part II.

This is why you might not like the music of Cocoon: The Return to be released, so now you go down bashing me because I'm the only one who asking for it. There is nothing wrong with the same themes appearing in a sequel, and getting different variations/orchestrations etc.

 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2013 - 5:09 PM   
 By:   Ron Hardcastle   (Member)

Reeve: Re: "I’m so sad to read that Horner’s Big Band Music is not your “cup of tea”

Sorry to make you sad. Please dry your tears. I happen to like Big Band music and have lots of Glenn Miller, Tommy Dorsey, Jimmy Dorsey, Benny Goodwin, Harry James, and many others from the period. But I have more of it than I'll ever play, and when I spent the money on a new CD of "Cocoon" (when I already had the original release), I didn't want a significant part of it to be taken up with a genre of music I didn't need nor want. I've had a chance to play the new "Cocoon" a few times, and while I almost always skip James Horner's Big Band-like creations, they aren't that big a part of the CD and I can certainly live with them. If those are important to you, I'm happy for you. But that's not why I ordered it.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2013 - 5:21 PM   
 By:   jfallon   (Member)

This release is amazing. After my first spin best way I can sum it up is it felt like a visit from an old friend. This is why Horner was king back then. And to those who don't like the "big band" cues... They are score written by Horner. If they were omitted it would be the same as if you omitted the action cues, or the emotional ones. They are an important part of the score. I don't understand the gripe.

 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2013 - 5:49 PM   
 By:   Sigerson Holmes   (Member)

For what it's worth - John Williams walked off the "Superman II" project when Richard Lester asked him to use THE SAME MUSIC . . .


It's worth exactly nothing without documentation.

What is your source for this?

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2013 - 6:36 PM   
 By:   Reeve   (Member)

I can't find it now, because the “Superman Cinema” website has been taken down. It was mentioned a number of times, but exclusively in an interview with Ilya Salkind. I have a print out of that interview. In most articles, you will read that John Williams had creative differences with Director Richard Lester, and at other times you will read that Williams did not return because Richard Donner got fired, but in reality, he did go inside a room to see the film with Lester, and then he walked out of the room saying “I cannot work with this man!” I have the print out of the interview. When I read it, obviously - to me, it was (and still is) a big deal, because that means, we would have had at least two Superman films with “Music By John Williams”.
Richard Lester’s frequent collaborator Ken Thorne was brought in to "adapt" Williams existing themes, because he was asked to do so, not because he is isn't talented etc.

Quite frankly; it is usually the Directors choice: They are the ones who communicate with the Composers and ask them to write specific scores; for example “using the same themes and motifs” as in the original film etc. It is usually the case of what the Director wants, not because the composer is lazy etc.
The reason we don't get memorable themes in today's films is because it's what the director instructs the composer. These days – they don't want music to take full attention of what is seen on screen. Let's move on now, away from this “heat” and talk about COCOON. I have not received my copy yet, so I can't comment on the CD.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2013 - 7:21 PM   
 By:   Matt S.   (Member)

I can't find it now, because the “Superman Cinema” website has been taken down. It was mentioned a number of times, but exclusively in an interview with Ilya Salkind. I have a print out of that interview. In most articles, you will read that John Williams had creative differences with Director Richard Lester, and at other times you will read that Williams did not return because Richard Donner got fired, but in reality, he did go inside a room to see the film with Lester, and then he walked out of the room saying “I cannot work with this man!” I have the print out of the interview. When I read it, obviously - to me, it was (and still is) a big deal, because that means, we would have had at least two Superman films with “Music By John Williams”.
Richard Lester’s frequent collaborator Ken Thorne was brought in to "adapt" Williams existing themes, because he was asked to do so, not because he is isn't talented etc.


That story was written up in FSM's Superman book with the Blue Box (page 62). It doesn't say exactly why Williams couldn't work with Lester. However, the emphasis you added, "I cannot work with this man!" was never there. Ilya Salkind claims Williams was very calm and professional about the whole matter.

 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2013 - 7:28 PM   
 By:   Sigerson Holmes   (Member)

"Richard Lester asked him to use THE SAME MUSIC . . ."


I'm sure you understand that it is this particular sentence which really troubles me. Unless you can quote someone else saying this, and direct me to a specific source, I have to assume you made it up.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2013 - 7:35 PM   
 By:   Matt S.   (Member)

"Richard Lester asked him to use THE SAME MUSIC . . ."


I'm sure you understand that it is this particular sentence which really troubles me. Unless you can quote someone else saying this, and direct me to a specific source, I have to assume you made it up.


Indeed. If all Lester wanted was an adaptation job (which he got from Ken Thorne), why even meet with Williams in the first place? I would imagine Williams' money demands were getting pretty high, being a three-time Oscar winner at this point, so why not just go straight to Thorne at the outset?

 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2013 - 8:01 PM   
 By:   Sigerson Holmes   (Member)

"I would imagine"?!

It seems pretty obvious to me, just from the bare-bones facts of movie history, without any imaginative conjecture born of wishful thinking, that the ONLY reason Thorne did "Superman II" is because Williams did not. The only reason he reworked Williams' material from the first film is because Williams did not return to score the second one.

What else do you need to know?

Unless you witnessed the meeting between Lester and Williams, or can quote someone who did, there's no need to sprinkle little turds of misinformation on our message board, and dress it up with smart-sounding phrases like "quite frankly."

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2013 - 10:35 PM   
 By:   Reeve   (Member)

I really don't know the point as to why I need to prove myself?

I don't get any money or satisfaction out of this - all I get is a headache and sore eyes.

Here is the Salkind Interview, below, and here is the link on the Superman Homepage! http://www.supermanhomepage.com/movies/movies.php?topic=interview-salkind

"The sequel lost one more participant from the original - conductor John Williams whose original score was adapted for "Superman II" by Ken Thorne. Salkind recalled that Williams was set to return until an unfortunate happenstance. "John Williams came to London, we paid [for] the trip. He saw the [second] film. I made a mistake. I let him alone with Lester in the screening room and somehow Lester and him did not hit it off at all. At the end of the screening, John said 'Ilya can I speak to you?' He said 'Look I cannot work with this man.' That was it."

You need to scroll down to THE SUPERMAN III DVD cover,

and read a couple of paragraphs above that,

it is basically in the middle section as you scroll.... OK?

It was on the Superman Cinema Website originally..... I hope I can get COCOON: THE RETURN remastered, as that was the original topic that stated this argument, only because people want to be smart asses!

As for the PROOF of Lester wanting the same music, that is why he hired Ken Thorne, because of his "adapting" skills - I don't gain anything by proving my "point". It is enough proof that they paid for John Williams trip etc, and that his price wasn't "that" high - It was Richard Lester he couldn't work with, it had nothing to do with money.

 
 Posted:   Nov 7, 2013 - 10:57 PM   
 By:   Ron Hardcastle   (Member)

Would somebody kindly take us BACK to Intrada's "Cocoon" release before this was taken down an entirely different road that, as far as I can tell, has nothing to do with Horner NOR "Cocoon." It looks like the principal culprit here was Aussie Reeve and his repeated comments about "Superman II" and John Williams and Richard Lester and so much else that belongs in a different thread. Geeze, folks.

 
 Posted:   Nov 8, 2013 - 1:10 AM   
 By:   Sigerson Holmes   (Member)

I really don't know the point as to why I need to prove myself?


All you needed to prove was this:

"Richard Lester asked him to use THE SAME MUSIC . . ."

You typed it, and as I suspected, you cannot prove it.

Want to "go Rand Paul on us," now, so we'll "leave you the hell alone"? No problem.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 8, 2013 - 4:31 AM   
 By:   Matt S.   (Member)

Would somebody kindly take us BACK to Intrada's "Cocoon" release before this was taken down an entirely different road that, as far as I can tell, has nothing to do with Horner NOR "Cocoon." It looks like the principal culprit here was Aussie Reeve and his repeated comments about "Superman II" and John Williams and Richard Lester and so much else that belongs in a different thread. Geeze, folks.

Just calm down already. The topic moved to Cocoon: The Return and the idea of whether or not as a sequel it was simply rehash, which moved to Star Trek III, which moved to Superman II. The Superman connection has been extended because Sigerson Holmes took issue with a comment Reeve made. It's the natural course of a conversation between people.

If you want people to talk about Cocoon, then go ahead and make a comment about it and spur some more discussion.

But boldfacing your type and scolding people for talking off topic is just silly.

 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
© 2014 Film Score Monthly. All Rights Reserved.