 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
Posted: |
May 4, 2012 - 8:58 PM
|
|
|
|
By: |
pp312
(Member)
|
Even the score's harshest critics might acknowledge that it has, at the very least, the power to provoke spicy debate three decades after its creation. Such a thing is usually a sign that a significant work of art has been created. 
Missed it again, Einstein. As regards the topic at hand -- the question "Is DRAGONSLAYER (the music score) art?" is completely irrelevant. No one has argued that it isn't, or that Alex North was an untalented piker. The issues seem to be (a) did the score support/explain/uplift the film, as film scores are commonly expected to do, vs. distract/confuse the audience as to the film's intentions? and (b) secondarily, is it a pleasing/exciting listening experience apart from the film? If the film misses its mark, shouldn't the score clarify and enhance, as opposed to throwing more fuel on the fire of confusion?
Thanks for bringing us back on track, Dana. I keep posting, and people keep replying to things I didn't say, which means either they don't actually read my posts or my English is so poor as to be incomprehensible.
My point, yet again, is simply this: the music to my ears played against the film and mitigated against what excitement it contained (it wasn't exactly action packed). I liked the film. I couldn't see much wrong with it EXCEPT the music. Like Mr. Walsh, I kept trying to get into it and being kept out by the music, which sounded like a bleed-through from another track altogether. In fact, I often watch films with subtitles while I listen to soundtracks on headphones, and that's what Dragonslayer sounded like--a film accompanied by a score from an entirely different film.
As to innovation and daring, I could probably retrack Fall of the Roman Empire with Duelling Banjoes and someone would applaud my innovation and daring--but it wouldn't be right. It might work in a couple of scenes (I think Tiomkin used mandolins here and there), but it would be playing against the film 95% of the time. Think of this: there are very few scores that a significant number of people consider wrong for the film. Scores are mostly accepted on their own terms. When one is as discussed as this, I see it not as a tribute to the score but as a sign that something is wrong, that the score just didn't hit the mark.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: |
May 4, 2012 - 10:18 PM
|
|
|
|
By: |
JSWalsh
(Member)
|
I don't see anybody's minds being changed here; I'll continue to love the score (and in fact I quite enjoy the film) along with Cleopatra, Spartacus, Who's Afraid Of Virginia Woolf, Cheyenne Autumn and 2001...
Jeff,
I don't see anybody trying to change anyone's mind. Do you seriously believe anyone was trying to stop you or anyone else from liking the movie, or North's music? I'm puzzled.
If the purpose of this message board is to change minds it's been a total failure. I've never posted a single thing meant to change anyone's mind. I thought it was about discussion, and actually find the idea of "winning" discussion of tastes absurd and silly.
One thing's for sure--if they reboot Dragonslayer, nobody's going to be talking about the score to that film 30 years later...
Well, we can't know such a thing, just as no one could know people would be talking about the scores to such wretched movies as The Mephisto Waltz, The Final Conflict, Jaws 2, Superman:The Quest For Peace, Lifeforce, Krull, Brainstorm, The Satan Bug, and probably 90% of the movies that have FSM, Intrada and Varese soundtrack albums... except us score fans. Doesn't really say anything about the quality of the film, or the music, though--I mean, who does talk about this stuff 30 years later but this little village of music nerds? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: |
May 5, 2012 - 8:04 AM
|
|
|
|
By: |
pp312
(Member)
|
If the scene is meant to be exciting, the music should be exciting, not droning.-
100% disagree. There is absolutely no reason music HAS to be anything if it makes the scene work as intended. There are countless instances in which 'exciting' music spoils an 'exciting' scene, and where 'droning' or otherwise placid writing is exactly what the scene needs. I don't think one can make such a statement arbitrarily--what works for the scene works for the scene, and it doesn't 'have' to be of a specific type (agitated, excited, etc.).
Let's not get too finicky here. We're talking appropriate, nothing more--something that works in terms of heightening the scene and conveying what the writer/director intended. Yes, there are occasions when it works to play against type, but they're the exception rather than the rule. If you're asked to score a swordfighting scene, you'd be wise to do what Rozsa always did and simply score the scene as the audience and director expect. You may decide that a high-pitched whistle or a low drone somehow conveys some deeper element the audience might otherwise have missed, but you'd be wise to have your reasons for such an approach handy when questioned about them or you may well find yourself flying in ever-decreasing intellectual circles until you disappear up your own rear orifice.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: |
May 5, 2012 - 8:10 AM
|
|
|
|
By: |
JSWalsh
(Member)
|
You may decide that a high-pitched whistle or a low drone somehow conveys some deeper element the audience might otherwise have missed, but you'd be wise to have your reasons for such an approach handy when questioned about them or you may well find yourself flying in ever-decreasing intellectual circles until you disappear up your own rear orifice.
This will be my last response just so we don't beat this thing even deader than it already is, but I don't agree, and I'm not being finicky. What you're talking about is Mickey Mousing (not a derogatory term, just an appropriate one) or something like it, and it's fine as it is. But the application of that depends on the mood of the scene and the GOAL of the scene. One reason, I think, that Williams left the big swordfights in STAR WARS and EMPIRE unscored was because they were NOT frenetic, action-y fights--they were dramatic confrontations that active music would have detracted from. Note the above example from JEDI, and there are others in the same movie, where Williams is scoring the emotion (or what emotion SHOULD be there).
Now consider the prequel fights, all of them scored wall to wall with active, splashy music. I happen to like those cues, but most of those fights are routine or rote (by the middle part of SITH it was like "Okay, kill him let's get it over with"). In the fight between Anakin and Palpatine, Williams uses a very frantic, straining piece that I think is just fantastic for what he's trying to do, show the conflict. But toward the end of the final fight in the movie, in the lava, he is using a loud choir that certainly isn't keeping up with every thrust of the fight.
I'm not talking about some obscure eceptions. Not every movie is trying to be like Robin Hood, and not every fight needs that kind of active musical backing to it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I wouldn't expect a discussion like this to change anybody's taste -- at least not overnight. But if it encourages rethinking, arouses curiosity, challenges received opinions, or weeds out illogical conclusions, then it will have served a useful purpose.
Honestly, these kind of comments are a real head-scratcher. No offense, but come on Rozsaphile, I don't think anyone here is susceptible to this kind of Jedi-mind-trick. If anything, when there's a heated "I love this score---I hate this score" discussion, people on this site tend to dig their heels in even deeper--and those opinions tend to grow more and more extreme.
No commentary here whether sweet or nasty is going to sway my 31-year old love for Alex North's DRAGONSLAYER.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: |
May 5, 2012 - 7:17 PM
|
|
|
|
By: |
pp312
(Member)
|
You may decide that a high-pitched whistle or a low drone somehow conveys some deeper element the audience might otherwise have missed, but you'd be wise to have your reasons for such an approach handy when questioned about them or you may well find yourself flying in ever-decreasing intellectual circles until you disappear up your own rear orifice.
This will be my last response
This will be my last response also as I kind of agree with chromaparadise above about people digging their heels in. To return to the subject, no one is going to change his mind about the Dragonslayer score, and indeed the real point is not whether it's good or bad, and certainly not whether it works for the people on this board, who are not your average audience, but whether it works for Mr. & Mr Average, or say the average 16 year-old, and I have no doubt they'll be shut out and alienated by it, as you were. Let those who love it, love it, but (digging my heels in here) I will never agree that it was the right score for that film. End of story.
(Oh, just incidentally, I hated that droning choir at the climax of Sith. I thought it was inappropriate and pretentious).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dragonslayer has one of the finest scored opening title cards ever. That low menacing trombone motive answered by guttural low winds. It immediately communicated what kind of film and world the viewer was going to be immersed in.
Personally I love how the music runs counterpoint to the action. I haven't gone through all the posts here so I apologize if someone said it before (maybe even me...) but North found it hard to get into this movie and it's possible that's why it's not as emotionally involved as some feel it should be.
The score does encompass the bleak and rather morally ambiguous narrative and perfectly characterizes the antagonist. There's also quite a lot of terrific incidental music. And I love the bouncy Prokofiev-inspired music that accompanies the initial journey of Galen's.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
