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 Posted:   Jun 23, 2013 - 1:31 PM   
 By:   Gordon Reeves   (Member)


frown "That pestiferous form of urban blight." big grin

 Posted:   Jun 23, 2013 - 2:59 PM   
 By:   dan the man   (Member)

Well I don't know what angle you using the word glorious in when you are dealing with this topic my friend, But I have always tried to be open minded with all the bantering and viewpoints of the many controversial issues in the wacky world we live in.Rap like many things came from a sought of the hardships of daily life for people. So did the blues, jazz, hard rock etc etc etc. People watching certain questionable entertainment like SCARFACE, THE SOPRANOS, TAXI DRIVER, LOLITA and loads more. Everything and every stage in our lives can be handle with the love, goodness, decency and compassion of our wills or sadly can be dealt with in a cold ruthless sinful evil manner.. RAP MUSIC, HIP HOP, has been dealt with like all these other things in good and bad ways.I like to try not to be a hypocrite on issues and it makes me feel good to see others as well try to do the same. It takes patience wisdom and sincerity to achieve this.We know how critics of the past and present can foolishly lash out at things that should not have been totally lashed out at, HORROR GENRE, HAMMER, ROCK AND ROLL, COLOR TV, PAY TV, CABLE, THE INTERNET,HANS ZIMMER, thousands of other things in our life right down to the topical Paula Deen fiasco, RAP is just one of many many things that fall into that humongous category of life's issues. life issues where there are not one answer. It would be better if we spent more time dealing with issues that indeed does pretty much has one answer.

 Posted:   Jun 23, 2013 - 3:42 PM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

Rap is crap! Yeah see I can rhythm too. big grin

 Posted:   Jun 23, 2013 - 3:44 PM   
 By:   Michael24   (Member)

Charlton Heston said it best: Rap is vocal graffiti.

 Posted:   Jun 23, 2013 - 3:53 PM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

It's Syncopated Misogyny and Self Hatred.

 Posted:   Jun 23, 2013 - 5:18 PM   
 By:   random guy   (Member)

apologize if this is stereotyping or whatever, but I imagine for a lot you when it comes to rap all you hear about is the little waynes and 50 cents with their materialistic and misogynistic stuff. won't defend them nor do I have any tracks from them on my zune. but I will say that not all rap is this great evil some of you think it is.

there is a lot of rap out there that's essentially just poetry with a beat. a lot of it. if people don't like hip hop that's fine, don't have a problem with that. but please don't think all of it is money, sex, violence, whatever. lots of beauty out there too.

 Posted:   Jun 23, 2013 - 5:20 PM   
 By:   dan the man   (Member)


 Posted:   Jun 23, 2013 - 5:52 PM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

In all seriousness, its not the message that I don't like, (not that I care) it's the idea rap is music, which it is not. Rhyming is not poetry. Adding a beat doesn't make it music. Speaking in rhymes is not lyrical or does it require vocal talent. I also find the whole Neanderthal approach to rapping very unfortunate.

 Posted:   Jun 23, 2013 - 6:08 PM   
 By:   dan the man   (Member)

TO SOLIUM- But then you don't consider, the music that was performed in the late 50's 60's[beatnik music]not music either. Interesting some messages that does come from RAP, annoy me, like any music, but I got nothing against the music itself.i question when somebody says a certain style of music is bad, How do you prove that?

 Posted:   Jun 23, 2013 - 6:56 PM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

Yeah it's actually a tough question. But I do think there are some parameters. Same as, "what is art?". Is a portrait or still life painting art? Yes. Is wrapping pink fabric around an island art? Hard to quantify.

 Posted:   Jun 23, 2013 - 7:56 PM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

Old white guy doesn't like youth culture.

Film at 11.

 Posted:   Jun 23, 2013 - 8:25 PM   
 By:   Christopher Kinsinger   (Member)

It's all a matter of personal tastes and opinions, that's all. Thank God, we are all different.
I've been a visual artist all my life. There are artists whose work I admire and look up to, and then there are "artists" who take a dump on canvas and call it an important statement.
I can see for myself that the Emperor has no clothes.
I don't listen to rap music because I haven't found any of it that I like. That's all. Much of it that I have heard required little or no talent whatsoever to produce. On the other side of that coin, I've heard other selections that did indeed display tremendous talent and creativity. But that didn't cause me to enjoy it any more than I did before.
We are blessed with infinite choices in the world of art.
We can study Michelangelo and Renoir. We can also behold the black velvet painting of Elvis or John Wayne gracing a neighbor's living room wall.

I may offend some of you by saying this.
There IS good art, and there IS bad art.
The truth is that there is probably only 2% of the population, if that, who are educated enough to know the difference.

I think it is worth celebrating that among those infinite choices there is something out there for everybody to enjoy.

 Posted:   Jun 23, 2013 - 8:37 PM   
 By:   Gordon Reeves   (Member)

Non-Kosmic Kuestion About Da Olde Whyte Guy Department:

Mr. Kramer's authentic accomplishments - if anyone actually dared to delve and investigate - will resonate farrrrrr longer than the usual one-sentence pot-shots.

NO film (or anything else) at 10, 11 or 12.

How d'ya like them apples? wink

 Posted:   Jun 23, 2013 - 8:48 PM   
 By:   Gordon Reeves   (Member)

And 'glorious', Meester Dee, 'cause Amurrican culture in particular has an odious incredibly lazy habit of extolling virtually everything as something only Time and Posterity validates where Value is concerned.

Nobody's painting a tarring brush with absolutism where the subject under scope is concerned, but - ala Hollywood's habit of usually crowning every popular comedian as a roll eyes 'Genius' roll eyes or every month (nay, hell, every damn week) brings forth another instant Classic - not everything that's popular automatically is bequeathed with Relevance.

Is all Rap excreable?

Of course not, any more than virtually whatever else you wanna include.

As for that usual simplistic-in-the-extremis shibboleth about 'youth culture' - try just an infusion of experienced exposed Culture and you might be closer.

Then again, Theodore Sturgeon's 90% Law ain't entirely irrelevant, either.

But when everybody can go into a makeshift studio, scribble some general lines that anyone can read 'deeeppppp" substance into and suddenly it's an automatic Art Form ... puh-leeze.

Those that can find merit within it, hay, knock yerselves out and enjoy.

But barely literate (non) 'lyrics' and a monotonous beat scarcely qualifies as anything even remotely resembling Music.

When they produce a body of work instantly memorable and with songs that include stories, morals or even just artful entertainment ala, for colorful instance, Smokey Robinson or Holland-Dozier-Holland's masterful musical pieces for Motown - and it stands the test of nearly a half-century - THEN let's see where it stands.

 Posted:   Jun 23, 2013 - 9:07 PM   
 By:   Christopher Kinsinger   (Member)

"When they produce a body of work instantly memorable and with songs that include stories, morals or even just artful entertainment ala, for colorful instance, Smokey Robinson or Holland-Dozier-Holland's masterful musical pieces for Motown - and it stands the test of nearly a half-century - THEN let's see where it stands."

Friend HAD ME at "Smokey"!

big grin

 Posted:   Jun 23, 2013 - 9:15 PM   
 By:   Gordon Reeves   (Member)

Advancing your thesis a tiny bit, Chris, brings up these Black on Black paintings by that antiquated Old Whyte Russian Guy, Kasimir Malevich.

Is this art, Art or ART?

Dan might opine, "Who's to say?"

In which we'd answer: YOU are.

You'll get from it what you bring To it - if there's anything to be brought From it.

But there are also instances where, paraphrasing Ms. Stein's celebrated quote "There's no There there."

And so ... where does one go along the way to, before or after "Black on Black" -

'White on White'!?!

Well, actually: yes.

 Posted:   Jun 23, 2013 - 9:34 PM   
 By:   dan the man   (Member)

But why is it often with these discussions we seem to be going around in circles,, Can't we all agree there is good and bad in all, anyone who has listen to enough RAP MUSIC knows it is not all the time a boring beat there is music in there. That goes with HANS ZIMMER as well. The trouble is I think too often the things we condemn we often don't know enough of, we listen or see something that does nothing to us, we cut it out real quick and assume all will follow suit with the thing we don't like. SAM ARKOFF once said If you listen to anything long enough you will grow to accept it, maybe like it as well. Do you believe this is true?Is it only lack of knowledge and ignorance that makes something seem bad. Or am I and MR Arkoff naïve?

 Posted:   Jun 23, 2013 - 9:34 PM   
 By:   Christopher Kinsinger   (Member)

"And so ... where does one go along the way to or after "Black on Black" -

'White on White'!?!

Well, actually: yes."

Again, neo...these questions are ultimately so very personal to each of us. We all formulate our views based upon so many widely varied experiences and life lessons.

MY artistic treasure may be your garbage. And vice versa.

I prefer to simply hold a personal respect for every human being, regardless of what I may think or feel about their opposing opinions.

Frankly speaking, I could have produced "Black on Black" during my coffee break, after chatting with my co-workers about their sociological views. The bare simplicity of it is so evident to me. That does not make it "BAD" in my view. It just makes it "DIFFERENT".

As I said earlier, Thank God, we are ALL different!

 Posted:   Jun 23, 2013 - 9:46 PM   
 By:   dan the man   (Member)

To CHRIS- I agree with your statement 99%, the one percent-don't yell fire in a crowded movie house. I think when it comes to the moral mind it is not an opinion. Although of course in this world so many will not be wise enough to see right or wrong. I go with the difference as long as you hold your own without interfering with my personal safety, MORT ADLER'S 7 GREAT IDEA'S, I believe it was.

 Posted:   Jun 23, 2013 - 10:17 PM   
 By:   Christopher Kinsinger   (Member)

"don't yell fire in a crowded movie house."

dan, my man...I hope that you have come to know me better than that by now.

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