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 Posted:   Apr 21, 2016 - 3:20 PM   
 By:   Mr. Jack   (Member)

Die Hard 2 had one of the last traditional matte paintings I can think of (the final shot of the movie).

 
 Posted:   Apr 21, 2016 - 3:41 PM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

From INDUSTRIAL LIGHT AND MAGIC: INTO THE DIGITAL REALM

Photoshop has helped ILM's CG department function with more freedom in the digital realm. Since its first motion picture use in 1989's THE ABYSS...

THE ART OF THE RETURN OF THE JEDI shows two landing bay paintings, each with a painting credit and a photo credit. (Why would a digital render have a photo credit?)


I'm going on recollection here, but I believe the artist who worked on the landing bay was working freelance. So he might have gotten a contract credit.

The landing bay was designed in wire frame. Then rendered. The space outside the bay opening was done in Photoshop. Again going on memory.

I can't prove it until I find the article. But I can't imagine I would remember an article in such detail and be completely mistaken.

Edit: Well I found the image online-

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130308055501/starwars/images/8/86/DeathStarIIHangar-TCWBRBD2.png

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 21, 2016 - 3:46 PM   
 By:   Thgil   (Member)

The shot of Fiorina 161 as the EEV plummets toward it was certainly a matte painting, as were numerous other shots in Alien 3.

 
 Posted:   Apr 21, 2016 - 4:04 PM   
 By:   Metryq   (Member)

Edit: Well I found the image online-

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130308055501/starwars/images/8/86/DeathStarIIHangar-TCWBRBD2.png


That's one of the paintings shown in THE ART OF THE RETURN OF THE JEDI. And the top and bottom of the glass are visible with the "scratch" spots of paint I mentioned. The caption in the book reads "Matte painting by Frank Ordaz. Photo by Roberto McGrath." The image in the book shows stars in the port. So this may not be the 3D and Photoshop example you are thinking of.

I suppose it's possible the shot was redone for one of the "special edition" releases, but I don't see how the shot could be improved that way.

An interesting note about the DIE HARD 2 painting featured up-thread is that it was digitally manipulated and composited. Due to the limitations of computer processing power at the time, this long zoom-out shot was done with a "bullseye" approach. Four images of the painting were taken, from a tight close-up to the full span. The four images were used in succession during the digital zoom as the computer reached its limits. (See page 139 of INDUSTRIAL LIGHT AND MAGIC: INTO THE DIGITAL REALM.)

I did something similar to this back when the input limit for After Effects was 4000 x 4000. I made a digital animation looking through a film loupe at a page of contact prints. The sequence had to start at one edge of the page and pan along the 35mm frames until it hit the other side of the page—and that was way over the resolution limit. I ended up animating four 4000 x 4000 elements across the canvas. The "lens" in the loupe even showed a reflection of a person's eye. At the time (late '90s) digital VFX were still rather new. And the DP remarked to the director during dailies, "Wow! How did you get a film camera down that close, and how did you get the reflection of the eye, too?"

 
 Posted:   Apr 21, 2016 - 4:09 PM   
 By:   RoryR   (Member)

My favorite movie ends with a matte painting shot! Bet you can't guess what.

 
 Posted:   Apr 21, 2016 - 4:33 PM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

Edit: Well I found the image online-

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130308055501/starwars/images/8/86/DeathStarIIHangar-TCWBRBD2.png


That's one of the paintings shown in THE ART OF THE RETURN OF THE JEDI. And the top and bottom of the glass are visible with the "scratch" spots of paint I mentioned. The caption in the book reads "Matte painting by Frank Ordaz. Photo by Roberto McGrath." The image in the book shows stars in the port. So this may not be the 3D and Photoshop example you are thinking of.

I suppose it's possible the shot was redone for one of the "special edition" releases, but I don't see how the shot could be improved that way.



You know what? That may explain it!

 
 Posted:   Apr 21, 2016 - 4:56 PM   
 By:   dogplant   (Member)

(Cinefex itself has gone digital, if you're amenable to ebooks.)

Not entirely true. An iPad version of the magazine became available from Cinefex 127 onwards, October 2011. An iPad version of the entire back catalog -- all issues, including long out-of-print editions, dating back to Cinefex 1, March 1980 -- also became available in 2014. But the magazine is still in print, continuing its 36 year run, and last February increased production from four to six issues per year: http://www.cinefex.com

For other resources, as Ado mentioned, Peter Cook's website is fantastic: http://nzpetesmatteshot.blogspot.com

Some great books about the art and history of matte painting:

The Invisible Art
by Mark Cotta Vaz and Craig Barron
http://www.amazon.com/The-Invisible-Art-Mark-Cotta/dp/0811831361

Ellenshaw Under Glass
by Peter Ellenshaw, with Bruce Gordon and David Mumford
http://www.ellenshaw.com/bk_Under_Glass.htm

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 21, 2016 - 5:34 PM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

My favorite movie ends with a matte painting shot! Bet you can't guess what.

Raiders of the Lost Ark?

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 21, 2016 - 5:37 PM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

Die Hard 2 had one of the last traditional matte paintings I can think of (the final shot of the movie).



Thank you Mr Jack and Metryq,

Very interesting.

I recall that painting in Die Harder now, what a spectacular entertainment, packed with over the top profanities and violence, I think part of that picture still had a foot in the old fashioned movie violence of the 80's - but in the best possible way.


 
 Posted:   Apr 21, 2016 - 6:02 PM   
 By:   Metryq   (Member)

My favorite movie ends with a matte painting shot! Bet you can't guess what.

Hmmm, that's a toughie. RAIDERS OF THE DIE HARD APES?

 
 Posted:   Apr 21, 2016 - 6:10 PM   
 By:   Metryq   (Member)

Metryq wrote: (Cinefex itself has gone digital, if you're amenable to ebooks.)

Dogplant replied: Not entirely true.


I didn't say solely digital, but thanks for the book references and the detail on Cinefex digital archiving. I may look into some of those back issues that were previously available only as Xerox copies. While I enjoy digital tools myself, and the fantastic shots showing up in today's movies, reading about the "wire, tape and rubberband" style of VFX is more exciting.

 
 Posted:   Apr 21, 2016 - 6:49 PM   
 By:   Col. Flagg   (Member)

That's one of the paintings shown in THE ART OF THE RETURN OF THE JEDI. And the top and bottom of the glass are visible with the "scratch" spots of paint I mentioned. The caption in the book reads "Matte painting by Frank Ordaz. Photo by Roberto McGrath." The image in the book shows stars in the port. So this may not be the 3D and Photoshop example you are thinking of.

I suppose it's possible the shot was redone for one of the "special edition" releases, but I don't see how the shot could be improved that way.


JEDI did have true digital imagery, but it was not photoreal. Lucasfilm's then "computer division" contributed the wireframe Death Star II hologram in the briefing room scene. At the time, the computer division was capable of rendering a more complex hologram, but Lucas nixed it. So they rendered out wireframe color separations, which were then optically composited into the scene by ILM.

The definitive history of the computer division (that would later become Pixar) is chronicled in the excellent and accessible Droidmaker: George Lucas and the Digital Revolution. It doubles as an amazing history of computer graphics (and audio, and other) pioneers, the very best of whom were essentially drafted by Lucasfilm, and to some extent American Zoetrope, in the late 70s/early 80s. Essential reading for anyone curious about how we really got the tools we now use daily (still graphics, paint programs, motion graphics, anti-aliasing, non-linear video and sound editing, early audio noise-reduction, etc.)

http://www.droidmaker.com/index.html

 
 Posted:   Apr 22, 2016 - 3:22 AM   
 By:   Metryq   (Member)

Saul, thanks for the tip on DROIDMAKER. I've read TO INFINITY AND BEYOND and some other histories of Pixar, ILM and other material relating to VFX, computers, production and media technologies, etc. Such things seem invisible when you live through them and have no context of the world without them. I was just getting into video editing around 1980, and EditDroid was just another one of those technologies to learn about and absorb.

In a similar way, I lived through the microprocessor revolution and didn't notice it as anything outstanding. (I was born in '65. When my dad told me Apollo 17 would be the last moonflight, I wondered why they'd stop such "routine" missions. I'd seen STAR TREK. Wasn't space the future?)

With that in mind, I'd like to recommend THE CHIP by T.R. Reid.
http://www.amazon.com/Chip-Americans-Invented-Microchip-Revolution-ebook/dp/B000XU4UT4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

It's amazing how much this one invention has changed the world (part of the long history leading to DROIDMAKER). I was reminded of one secondary effect of the technology while watching ENTER THE DRAGON. One of the characters was wearing stereo headphones, and they were just as big as his afro—no rare earth magnets in headphones back then! (I had a set of monster headphones like that.) Nowadays rare earth magnets are wasted on fancy product packaging.

Augmented reality can be done with smartphones these days. Can younger people, thus, truly appreciate matte paintings? I know, even with the "special edition" VFX, the original STAR WARS trilogy now seems quaint and slow-paced.

 
 Posted:   Apr 22, 2016 - 8:13 AM   
 By:   Col. Flagg   (Member)

Augmented reality can be done with smartphones these days. Can younger people, thus, truly appreciate matte paintings? I know, even with the "special edition" VFX, the original STAR WARS trilogy now seems quaint and slow-paced.

Thanks for the tip on THE CHIP, Metryq.

When I was growing up in the 70s, a local station would run genre films on saturday afternoon – things like the Planet of the Apes series, Fantastic Voyage, live action Disney movies, etc. Did I notice the mattes, the model work, the composites? Not always – but they did strike me, obviously enough that I'd chase the art as a fan beyond the films. (Not unlike film music, really.)

In the end, the masses won't notice. Some of us will, and that's just fine. Does anyone talk about the wonderful mattes in Citizen Kane? Even some film students are oblivious to them – but they're there.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 22, 2016 - 2:45 PM   
 By:   riotengine   (Member)

I just watched the old 70s ABC Movie Of The Week film, Deliver Us From Evil. There is an absolutely gorgeous matte painting by Al Whitlock, of the characters up on a mountaintop cliiff-face, with a river seen far below.

I had to look at it a few times as it really fooled me by how good it looked.

Greg Espinoza

 
 Posted:   Apr 22, 2016 - 2:55 PM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)

Just a credit where it is due thing here;

Photoshop was sold to Adobe by brothers Thomas and John Knoll.
They created it.

Both brothers have worked for ILM, but they authored the software independent of ILM.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Photoshop#Early_history




@ Mr. Marshall - Remember the Genesis Demo reel in Wrath of Khan was fully digital animation. Probably done in 1981.


I know, but that was more of a self-contained sequence not a true composite
smile
bruce

 
 Posted:   Apr 22, 2016 - 2:56 PM   
 By:   'Lenny Bruce' Marshall   (Member)

I just watched the old 70s ABC Movie Of The Week film, Deliver Us From Evil. ...


Can you believe I let this guy into my home?
brm


ps xoxoxox

 
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