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Posted: |
Jul 2, 2012 - 5:23 PM
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By: |
Smaug
(Member)
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Ok, so while it's not that interesting to discuss whether any film composers' concert works are among the greats of all time having to measure up to Beethoven, Stravinsky and the rest, IT IS an interesting topic to discuss the best concert pieces by film composers.
I think the only bona fide entry into the classical canon would be the Korngold Violin Concerto.
However, I'm a big fan of Goldsmith's two concert works, Goldenthal's Fire,Water,Paper oratorio, Elfman's Serenada, and Kilar's Third Symphony.
On the other hand I gave Don Davis' opera a serious listen the other night and it just doesn't work. he's a great film composer-its problem was a wordy libretto and no drama. Sometimes great music can overcome such things.
Most film composers don't bother with concert music, but I'd love to hear Horner's Spectral Shimmers or Howard Shore's two concertos.
I'm defining film composer here as someone mostly known for film. Korngold is remembered mostly for his film work though he bridges a bit between film and classical. I think of Rota (great concerto for strings) as more of a film composer even though he wrote ten operas and lots of concertos. But alas none of them as interesting as his film music. On the other hand, Philip Glass is someone I think is not a film composer and his greatest successes are not for film-or at least in commercial film .
I'm talking about efforts like Elmer Bernstein's Guitar Concerto and John Williams stuff (I think his tuba and cello concertos quite good) or Bernard Herrmann's few concert pieces.
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I feel that composers who made their reputations in film have rarely come up with concert or absolute music which is as good as their movie efforts. Perhaps they are too used to the dictates of dramatic parameters/timings, or perhaps they just aren't articulate and have nothing to "say" when left to their own devices. I even think John Corigliano has been hit and miss in the concert hall, but has hit the mark each time he's written to celluloid.
One work I do find quite arresting is Goldsmith's "Music For Orchestra", which is dynamic, focused and (surprise, surprise) very dramatic. In contrast I find "Christus Apollo" meandering and long-winded, and and "Fireworks" typical of Goldsmith's watered-down 90s style. Similarly I was very disappointed with Elmer Bernstein's Guitar Concerto, which struck me as simplistic and rather boring. Maurice Jarre's "Concerto For EVI And Orchestra" didn't do much for me either. Michael Kamen's Saxophone Concerto is very repetitive and awkward in its first movement, but improves markedly in its 2nd and 3rd (but I don't like David Sanborn's playing).
John Williams's "occasional" works like "Liberty Fanfare" and "Call Of The Champions" are terrific though, as are things like "Hymn To New England" but I can't work-up much enthusiasm for his more dense, "serious" works like his Flute and Violin concertos or "Tree Song". I was also disappointed with "On Willows And Birches", the first movement of which is very similar to Takemitsu's "Tree Line". Basil Poledouris's "The Tradition Of the Games" was excellent however, and one of his best works. Like Williams he seemed to thrive as well in occasional music as he did in films.
John Barry's Eternal Echoes and Beyondness Of Things have some strong moments, though whether or not they are "concert" music is a debatable point (I also suspect they draw heavily on his unused movie themes). I like John Scott's "Colchester Symphony" a great deal, though it is somewhat "film like" in that it is descriptive music, but it develops very well and is a rewarding listen.
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I think the only bona fide entry into the classical canon would be the Korngold Violin Concerto.
Why? Korngold himself is probably more famous for 'The Tote Stadt'.
Korngold is often praised as the supreme melodist. I adore his work as a rule, but I always feel that many of his themes (not all by any means, nor even most) carry a certain stereotyped quality, like the 'Prince and Pauper' main theme. It's an excellent tune, but it somehow blows over your head, it seems too ... I don't know, as if you've heard it before, it doesn't seem distinct. More inventive tunes such as abound in Miklos Rozsa or many other film composers' works somehow don't get the approval of certain concert crowds. There's a conservatism that says that for a tune to be 'classical' it needs to be somewhat in the template of banality, and yet these same critics would be the first to attack same banality as 'cliched'.
There's an amazing array of young virtuoso players who are queuing up to record Miklos Rozsa chamber and sonata works on YouTube, he's on the up and up.
The problem with this thread's premise is the assumption that film-music composers define THEMSELVES first and foremost as film-music types. They often don't, it's just their route to work, fame, exposure and money.
And the use of the term 'classical' is questionable. Strictly, Korngold is 'classical' in the proper post-Baroque sense of that term, but much modern concert-work isn't in that style, is post-impressionistic. There is no one universal style of concert music, and some lend themselves more to the 'conservative broadcasters and safe concert' set.
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The term "film composer" is elusive. Most composers who worked in films AND for the concert stage would probably be offended being called "film composers". Rózsa certainly was. He always described his film music as what he was doing to earn a living. That said, it is probably his Violin Concerto (or his Viola Concerto or his first String Quartet, which are also superb) that is the "best" concert work by a composer primarily associated with films.
Another would be the Moby Dick Cantata by Herrmann.
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There's nothing better about concert music.
I agree, but try making that argument on a classical music discussion board, e.g. the Good Music Guide Forum, which is excellent. Still, the vast majority of posters there regard film music as inferior, "used", "borrowed" music. They just don't know. I tried to argue one time that composers like Goldsmith or Herrmann would one day be counted among the leading composers of the 20th century - the result was that I left that board.
Korngold isn't a composer primarily associated with films. He wrote concert works when he was 12, a long long time before he ever wrote anything for the movies. It was the Nazis that made him a "film composer" (a fact true of many emigré composers working in Hollywood).
As much as I love and admire Goldsmith, I think his cantata "Christus Apollo" is asinine in the extreme.
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I'm a sucker for Laurie Johnson's Concerto for saxaphone, trumpet, and orchestra.
Kind of sideways-Keith Emerson (Nighthawks, Inferno)'s piano concerto.
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The irony of Korngold is that he came to be belittled because he wrote film music, but it was an LP of his film music ("The Sea Hawk" RCA/Gerhardt) which kicked off the renaissance of appreciation for this composer, with the result, as John points out above, that his classical works are now widely played and recorded all over the world.
***
With all due respect, this is sort of a misbegotten thread. Everybody's entitled to his opinion, as the saying goes, but what we have here is a combination of useful information -- listing concert works by film composers -- cheek by jowl with subjectivity and personal opinions which can only reflect their respective poster's private mindsets. It starts with the opening paragraph, full of statements with which not everyone would agree (such as the musical value of Rota's concert works), and then is replicated in the subsequent posts, offering positive and negative viewpoints which are equally debatable. (Jim Svejda of KUSC FM, FWIW, actually thinks Bernstein's "boring" guitar concerto is superior to the Rodrigo.)
Oh well, as the fellow said, that's what makes horse races. And message boards.
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Actually, you could also get the recording by the soloist it was originally composed for, the great Janós Starker:
It has the benefit of including another fine work, the Piano Concerto (if you like Rózsa's film noir scores, you'll love this), also played here by its dedicatee.
That Telarc disc is indeed great, even if the support by the Atlanta Symphony is a bit too "anonymous".
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Posted: |
Jul 3, 2012 - 11:15 AM
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By: |
JohnnyG
(Member)
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Actually, you could also get the recording by the soloist it was originally composed for, the great Janós Starker:
It has the benefit of including another fine work, the Piano Concerto (ifg you like Rózsa's film noir scoes, you'll love this), also played here by its dedicatee.
That Telarc disc is indeed great, even if the support by the Atlanta Symphony is a bit too "anonymous".
Yes, the Piano Concerto is an energetic work with some, I could say, British overtones (Bax, Bliss et al). The two versions I mentioned have of course the benefit of excellent recorded sound.
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