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My advice would be to get off of Facebook. It is a cesspool, filled with awful people.
As for your criticism of the score, by suggesting someone else could've done it better, it is a bit of a non-starter as far as conversation goes. Of course Goldenthal would've done a better version: that is all in your head, where you assume its quality on your own. Any number of other people could suggest any other number of alternate composers that would've done what they wanted them to have done in their imagination. Unfortunately it dismisses the work that was done.
And what were to happen if Goldenthal did score your ideal version, yet it was also met with criticism and dislike because "Zimmer could've done it better?" It's reductive and makes conversation dull. As for the score as it is, was there anything that worked for you or was it all a wash? What could Zimmer and his collaborators done differently to have made it work better?
Pefectly stated. So much of the discussion just centers on fandom. Those who love a composer defend his work blindly, those who would have preferred another one claim that score would have been better.
The director and the producer decided on this particular way to go. I do not really enjoy the score as a pure listening experience but in the film it works. And Villeneuve said during the conversation with Nolan that Zimmer wanted to go as far as possible into sound design on this one, to stress the otherworldliness of the music. A symphonic, leitmotif-laden score would have been a more pleasurable listening, for sure. But that was not the intention.
Art is made by the artists. To claim one knows better is to insert oneself into a process one was not part of.
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Posted: |
Nov 2, 2021 - 7:30 AM
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By: |
Erik Woods
(Member)
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I was a bit disappointed with the film. I just adore all the Dune novels so I expected it. As for the score... I don't like it at all. I mentioned it in some Facebook forums and all Zimmer fans were rather rude. In one group the moderator said I was a troll. I was really hurt about that. Why should I like everything that a composer or his team wrote? I really believe that Goldenthal would do an exceptional job with this film and when I mentioned it, I was attacked. What is wrong with some people?
I have to deal with all sorts on the Facebook soundtrack forum I have to moderate. While I do appreciate all opinions the biggest issues I have are the people who just blurt out the same old crap about Zimmer (not a REAL composer, how many of his ghostwriters wrote the score, etc) OR it's the opposite end of the spectrum where the hardcore Zimmer fans don't tolerate anything less than people kneeling and worshipping Zimmer no matter what he produces. Honestly, I have no time for any of that. It's counterproductive and a waste of everyone's time.
What I do appreciate are different points of view and constructive criticism which leads to better discussion. And that happens more often than you think... but sometimes the idiots show up and try to ruin the fun for everyone else. I rule with an iron fist... some people don't like that... but it keeps the crap from infiltrating my forum.
I also cannot stand people on Facebook who go to every single Facebook soundtrack forum, seeks out the Dune and/or Zimmer threads with stuff like, "awful score, it's not music, it's sound design, how sad." I mean, really? Don't you have anything else to do? That's the kind of crap that gets eliminated from my forum immediately and those users are usually given a time out or are banned outright. Those are the trolls!
-Erik-
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https://screenrant.com/snyder-superman-theme-music-dceu-man-steel-perfect/
I respect that opinion but I do not agree with it.
I really like Zimmer as a person and I think that he has given us some wonderful scores. But I am not happy that many people now consider him the greatest composer in the history of film and they don't even know the name Goldsmith or Herrmann. After 30 years of listening and collecting film scores I just express my opinion and that is all. If some consider me a troll I don't care at all. In my view Zimmer is just a mediocre composer. IMHO. Is that OK? can we have an opinion?
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Posted: |
Nov 3, 2021 - 3:07 PM
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By: |
BTTFFan
(Member)
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https://screenrant.com/snyder-superman-theme-music-dceu-man-steel-perfect/
I respect that opinion but I do not agree with it.
I really like Zimmer as a person and I think that he has given us some wonderful scores. But I am not happy that many people now consider him the greatest composer in the history of film and they don't even know the name Goldsmith or Herrmann. After 30 years of listening and collecting film scores I just express my opinion and that is all. If some consider me a troll I don't care at all. In my view Zimmer is just a mediocre composer. IMHO. Is that OK? can we have an opinion?
Who here has said Zimmer is the greatest composer in history? I don't think I've ever heard someone say that. I think if you were to ask someone on the street, they'd probably say John Williams.
Zimmer creates easily digestible pop film music and is just getting a lot of press right now because of Bond and Dune. That seems to be making people uncomfortable when it probably shouldn't. Zimmer brings in new fans of film music and could be a gateway drug to works by Morricone, Herrmann, Williams, Horner, Goldmsith, etc.
I will agree with you that Zimmer has been a mediocre composer since Inception (NTTD kicks ass though), but I blame the output quality of films today and studios only financing bankable projects with a bankable sound.
My question would be, who else would have been a good choice to create the score for Dune? Who could elevate Villeneuve's imagery while calling back to the Golden/Silver Age classics? Reminds me of the Williams/Spielberg conversation while composing Schindler's List:
I said to Steven, 'I really think you need a better composer than I am for this film.' And he very sweetly said, 'I know, but they're all dead.'
EDIT
Article about how film-making has become too risk-averse
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/03/origin-stories-film-making-lightyear
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Posted: |
Nov 3, 2021 - 3:12 PM
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By: |
Erik Woods
(Member)
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https://screenrant.com/snyder-superman-theme-music-dceu-man-steel-perfect/
I respect that opinion but I do not agree with it.
I really like Zimmer as a person and I think that he has given us some wonderful scores. But I am not happy that many people now consider him the greatest composer in the history of film and they don't even know the name Goldsmith or Herrmann. After 30 years of listening and collecting film scores I just express my opinion and that is all. If some consider me a troll I don't care at all. In my view Zimmer is just a mediocre composer. IMHO. Is that OK? can we have an opinion?
So what if others think he's the greatest composer ever. There are people here (and elsewhere) who think Williams is the best or that Goldsmith, Herrmann, Korngold, Reznor & Ross, Levi, Vangelis, Barry, etc are the best. It's just an opinion, much like yours. Why spend so much time harping on what others think? Seriously, what EXACTLY is that going to accomplish? Instead, why don't you just celebrate what you enjoy and stop taking a dump on what other people enjoy! Just a suggestion.
-Erik-
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https://screenrant.com/snyder-superman-theme-music-dceu-man-steel-perfect/
I respect that opinion but I do not agree with it.
I really like Zimmer as a person and I think that he has given us some wonderful scores. But I am not happy that many people now consider him the greatest composer in the history of film and they don't even know the name Goldsmith or Herrmann. After 30 years of listening and collecting film scores I just express my opinion and that is all. If some consider me a troll I don't care at all. In my view Zimmer is just a mediocre composer. IMHO. Is that OK? can we have an opinion?
So what if others think he's the greatest composer ever. There are people here (and elsewhere) who think Williams is the best or that Goldsmith, Herrmann, Korngold, Reznor & Ross, Levi, Vangelis, Barry, etc are the best. It's just an opinion, much like yours. Why spend so much time harping on what others think? Seriously, what EXACTLY is that going to accomplish? Instead, why don't you just celebrate what you enjoy and stop taking a dump on what other people enjoy! Just a suggestion.
-Erik-
Thank you, totally agreed.
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