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Aye Cody, there is a counter argument that this might not appeal to the Glenn Miller/Golden Age gang who Kritzerland service quite regularly (although this is a silver age drama score and the theme in the link sarge attached is front and centre).
The previous Kritzers I already own are mostly late 60's or 70's works by composers I dig (Pino, M Small, Pat Williams and the big guys), so this one really hits my spot. The Charles Strouse rejected Molly Maguires score is still (to me) one of the greatest things they've ever put out.
This will be the second indiego title I take up, after the double Delerue score they did recently (and lovely it is too).
My final one will no doubt be something else of that ilk (hopefully Lee Holdridge) 
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Fantastic release, Bruce.
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Posted: |
Apr 2, 2016 - 7:21 AM
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By: |
cody1949
(Member)
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Aye Cody, there is a counter argument that this might not appeal to the Glenn Miller/Golden Age gang who Kritzerland service quite regularly (although this is a silver age drama score and the theme in the link sarge attached is front and centre).
The previous Kritzers I already own are mostly late 60's or 70's works by composers I dig (Pino, M Small, Pat Williams and the big guys), so this one really hits my spot. The Charles Strouse rejected Molly Maguires score is still (to me) one of the greatest things they've ever put out.
This will be the second indiego title I take up, after the double Delerue score they did recently (and lovely it is too).
My final one will no doubt be something else of that ilk (hopefully Lee Holdridge)
Yes, for my part you can separate "Glenn Miller/ Golden Age gang". Golden age I am interested in, but not musicals. Dramas, westerns, film noir scores are more to my liking. I would love to see Alfred Newman's score to the war-time drama THIS ABOVE ALL released by Kritzerland as an example. More of the shorter scores by Alfred Newman would make a wonderful disc.
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the movie plot sounds icky
Never saw it, Last Child?
I've had this on VHS initially, and still have my DVD of it.
There is no gore in this picture as probably would have been if it were done during the 1980s or later.
I actually like the movie - rather philosophical and quite voyeuristic! 
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Yeah. I've never heard of the film or a note of the score ... The only other Johnny Mandel I know and have is POINT BLANK
Hi, Kev McG.
The Japanese-only vinyl pressing of Mandel's Sailor was surely are hard-to-find item, but I expected that FSMers would have at least been familiar (or should be) with the film itself.
If one only has Mandel's Point Blank, then I suggest attempting to view such films as the 1968 Pretty Poison and/or Altman's 1969 That Cold Day in the Park to get additional exposure to Mandel's low-key & moody type of scores.
Sailor is one of Mandel's 'psychological' scores & within my Top 5 from this composer.
Since the rare LP was on the Polydor label, this raises hope that Kritzerland might reissue another equally rare Polydor LP program onto CD - that is Patrick John Scott's 1967 Rocket to the Moon
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While I never saw the film on its release (or subsequently), I remember this cover art so well from newspaper ads that the title and the art has always been especially evocative for me, emblematic of the unusual, moody films of the 70's. Only found out in recent years that it was based on a Mishima novel, which gave it a double whammy - both intriguing and a little bit of "uh oh" as I've kind of outgrown the melancholy existentialism these two threads (Mishima novels and 70's cinematic ennui) represent.
I'm finally gonna have to watch the darn thing. But I'll wait to get the music first, because this is one score I'd like to get to know on its own terms before I see the movie.
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Posted: |
Apr 2, 2016 - 12:53 PM
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By: |
waxmanman35
(Member)
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It's just a great, great score. And, as always, I'm kind of gobsmacked at the opt-outs. I seriously don't get it. I understand our show collectors, but not the film music fans. In fact, I have to tell you we've had a couple of film music fans who have opted out of EVERY release since the campaign closed. Go know. I mean, we're not releasing Powder - EVER. Nothing from the 90s, nothing from the 2000s. But it seems like that's where this is all heading these days. Can't fight that childhood nostalgia
I can try to explain why I’ve opted out the majority of releases. Just because something has been composed for a film doesn’t make it musically compelling. Nearly all the film scores I admire I was first exposed to when watching the film. There’s a resonance, a bond that’s created, of association of the music with the film. Absent that, a film score without reference to the visuals can often be tedious as a strictly musical experience. I listened to the samples of ‘Sailor and can’t imagine subjecting myself to a full album of what to my ears is musical wallpaper.
My taste in film music runs to “golden” and “silver” age quality music, and there are very few film scores from the ‘seventies forward that hold any interest for me. It’s all a matter of personal taste, of course.
As to the musicals, if I want to listen to that music I’ll just watch the film itself.
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It's just a great, great score. And, as always, I'm kind of gobsmacked at the opt-outs. I seriously don't get it. I understand our show collectors, but not the film music fans. In fact, I have to tell you we've had a couple of film music fans who have opted out of EVERY release since the campaign closed. Go know. I mean, we're not releasing Powder - EVER. Nothing from the 90s, nothing from the 2000s. But it seems like that's where this is all heading these days. Can't fight that childhood nostalgia
I can try to explain why I’ve opted out the majority of releases. Just because something has been composed for a film doesn’t make it musically compelling. Nearly all the film scores I admire I was first exposed to when watching the film. There’s a resonance, a bond that’s created, of association of the music with the film. Absent that, a film score without reference to the visuals can often be tedious as a strictly musical experience. I listened to the samples of ‘Sailor and can’t imagine subjecting myself to a full album of what to my ears is musical wallpaper.
My taste in film music runs to “golden” and “silver” age quality music, and there are very few film scores from the ‘seventies forward that hold any interest for me. It’s all a matter of personal taste, of course.
As to the musicals, if I want to listen to that music I’ll just watch the film itself.
Wow. I have to tell you some of my all-time favorite film scores are from movies that I have no emotional or any other attachment to. And, of course, one person's "wallpaper" is another person's stunning film score. As to the 70s, sorry we can agree to disagree there - some of the greatest film scores ever written, IMO, are from the 70s.
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What's really fascinating to me are all the opt-outs when we DO do a Golden Age title - funny, huh? Victor Young? Sorry, many, MANY opt-outs - the last volume was a not so hot seller.
I'm also fascinated by people who say that Mandel is somehow a "jazz" composer. Yes, he wrote I Want to Live, but most of his scores have nothing to do with jazz whatsoever, and much less so than Dave Grusin. All you have to do to understand THAT is listen to Mandel's rejected score to Author! Author! which is gorgeous, and then listen to Grusin's "jazzy" score that replaced it. For me, Mandel is one for the ages, a brilliant melodist (how anyone can say there's no melody in the samples we posted is beyond my comprehension) - I mean, this is the man who wrote The Shadow of Your Smile and Emily (his score to that film is stunning, too), and the pop song Where Do You Start, and Close Enough for Love - if those aren't melodies I don't know what are.
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Posted: |
Apr 2, 2016 - 1:49 PM
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By: |
Last Child
(Member)
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What's really fascinating to me are all the opt-outs when we DO do a Golden Age title - funny, huh? Victor Young? Sorry, many, MANY opt-outs - the last volume was a not so hot seller.
I'm also fascinated by people who say that Mandel is somehow a "jazz" composer. Yes, he wrote I Want to Live, but most of his scores have nothing to do with jazz whatsoever, and much less so than Dave Grusin.
There's two kinds of collectors: those who collect everything, and the pleasure collector. I dont think you can fault people in either category.
Being the latter collector, I dont care if a score is "great" (whatever that means). It's about personal taste and experience. I heard Mandel's I WANT TO LIVE and HARPER before THE VERDICT and SEVEN-UPS, so I still associate Mandel with jazz. Maybe that will wear off when I hear alot more of his 'regular' scores.
I recall the Victor Young cd was very peppy and romantic, the Glenn Miller cd was typically big band. Not a fan of either content or style, so why I should I get them? I'm getting this one because I enjoy angsty music. I'd pay double if you'd been able to snag GOD TOLD ME TO.
If you're seriously curious, send out a poll to indiegogo donors to get a rough idea. And add a check box for "I collect everything" and see how many tick that.
And by the way, THANK YOU for providing this score! Since I was never going to see the film, I wouldnt have known about it, especially with my Mandel-jazz-phobia. And as you say, some film scores can be your favorites without having seen the film.
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There's two kinds of collectors: those who collect everything, and the pleasure collector. I dont think you can fault people in either category.
That's essentially what it comes down to. I'm primarily a 60s and 70s person with respect to film and TV scores, and I can still be a bit picky in those decades. There are some composers of whom I buy everything released, with Mandel being one of them. FSM's trio of Mandel scores and Intrada's Escape to Witch Mountain are the albums that resonate best with me so far.
I understand Bruce's concerns, however. It appears that interest in this stuff is quickly declining, and that is unfortunate for both the labels and customers like us who love these things.
Exactly. And I'm not faulting anyone for anything - I'm fascinated by it, that's all. Because I have to tell you, five years ago people WERE buying everything and that included Golden Age, whatever it was. Why do you think labels are moving into the 1990s and 2000s now? Because they know what Golden Age and even the early Silver Age stuff sells. That simply wasn't the case five years ago or maybe even three years ago, but it's certainly the case now. I learned a good and fine lesson from the Glenn Miller soundtracks. I was too nervous to lower the number we did, but had I gone with my first instinct and done 750 rather than 1000 and charged 39.98 rather than 29.98, we a) would have sold out very quickly, and b) actually made some profit. Because those collectors (especially the Miller people) don't care about the cost - they want the music. Yes, there are less of them but you have to sell less when you charge more and really limit the limitation number. Lesson learned.
But the other lesson learned is I would not have done opt-outs other than for the shows had I known exactly what a pain it was going to be to keep track of it - no one here has a clew how crazy that gets. I know we would have raised less dough, but in the end with all the extra hours we've had to put in on keeping the opt-outs and ins straight, it pretty well evens itself out.
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I haven't opted out yet, and would probably only do so if Bruce released something identical to what I already have (which seems pretty darn unlikely). But I don't collect everything either, very far from it.
I have to agree that it's odd that so many opt outs are happening. Because for me at least contributing to Indiegogo was an investment in Bruce Kimmel's taste and sensibility. Which is what I figured others were doing as well, since those tendencies are clear based on what he's produced over the years.
I don't love everything you love, Bruce, and I love a lot of stuff you don't. But I've learned that when you say something is interesting and worth a listen, it tends to be true for me.
That's why I made the contribution, so it has seemed silly for me to say, well, I don't want this one or that one even though it's the very thing I contributed for in the first place. Plus of course it isn't costing me anything, or so it seems. I just got another free CD!
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Posted: |
Apr 2, 2016 - 2:57 PM
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By: |
edwzoomom
(Member)
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One thing I have ALWAYS loved about this board is that I have not yet read where anyone has tried to define someone who buys film music as opposed to someone who collects film music. It suddenly seems like this thread is making this segue but without reason.
Whether you collect based on composer, genre or "age" or "decade", your choices are yours and how lucky we are that we have labels that continue to offer what pleases a few of us, many of us or all of us.
Personally, I cannot define what kind of collector I am. I just know I am. My taste runs the gamut but I will say there are some types of scores I will never warm to or purchase. Those will remain my secret as I am sure nobody really cares.
This release is from a movie I just didn't "get" at the time of release and had forgotten about until I read about it here. At times, my choices are a bit like the movie "50 First Dates". I will recall a film from years back, think about the score and that's it. Eventually, it pops up somewhere (FSM) and I will recall it again. If I like, I buy; if not, I pass. Simplistic perhaps but it has served me well.
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Posted: |
Apr 2, 2016 - 9:50 PM
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By: |
PFK
(Member)
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It's just a great, great score. And, as always, I'm kind of gobsmacked at the opt-outs. I seriously don't get it. I understand our show collectors, but not the film music fans. In fact, I have to tell you we've had a couple of film music fans who have opted out of EVERY release since the campaign closed. Go know. I mean, we're not releasing Powder - EVER. Nothing from the 90s, nothing from the 2000s. But it seems like that's where this is all heading these days. Can't fight that childhood nostalgia
I can try to explain why I’ve opted out the majority of releases. Just because something has been composed for a film doesn’t make it musically compelling. Nearly all the film scores I admire I was first exposed to when watching the film. There’s a resonance, a bond that’s created, of association of the music with the film. Absent that, a film score without reference to the visuals can often be tedious as a strictly musical experience. I listened to the samples of ‘Sailor and can’t imagine subjecting myself to a full album of what to my ears is musical wallpaper.
My taste in film music runs to “golden” and “silver” age quality music, and there are very few film scores from the ‘seventies forward that hold any interest for me. It’s all a matter of personal taste, of course.
As to the musicals, if I want to listen to that music I’ll just watch the film itself.
Wow. I have to tell you some of my all-time favorite film scores are from movies that I have no emotional or any other attachment to. And, of course, one person's "wallpaper" is another person's stunning film score. As to the 70s, sorry we can agree to disagree there - some of the greatest film scores ever written, IMO, are from the 70s.
Most of the LPs and CDs I have are scores to films I've never seen. The music stands by itself.
If I see Steiner, Rozsa, Newman, Young, Waxman, Friedhofer, Raksin etc., I know it will be a class act.
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Posted: |
Apr 2, 2016 - 10:01 PM
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By: |
PFK
(Member)
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What's really fascinating to me are all the opt-outs when we DO do a Golden Age title - funny, huh? Victor Young? Sorry, many, MANY opt-outs - the last volume was a not so hot seller.
I'm also fascinated by people who say that Mandel is somehow a "jazz" composer. Yes, he wrote I Want to Live, but most of his scores have nothing to do with jazz whatsoever, and much less so than Dave Grusin. All you have to do to understand THAT is listen to Mandel's rejected score to Author! Author! which is gorgeous, and then listen to Grusin's "jazzy" score that replaced it. For me, Mandel is one for the ages, a brilliant melodist (how anyone can say there's no melody in the samples we posted is beyond my comprehension) - I mean, this is the man who wrote The Shadow of Your Smile and Emily (his score to that film is stunning, too), and the pop song Where Do You Start, and Close Enough for Love - if those aren't melodies I don't know what are.
I have bought ALL of Kritzerland's Golden Age CDs and most from the 60s. Have bought some from the 70s. I would like to buy still more but for some of us we just can't afford to buy all that interest us. Money might be a problem with Golden Age fans who are now retired.
I'm surprised that Victor Young Vol. 2 had many opt-outs. It's a beautiful CD! I guess if Victor Young scored a 90s horror film with a bunch of noise it would sell out. So it goes with the younger fans.
I hope there will be enough sales so Kritzerland will be able to continue to issue their high-quality scores from the 30s to through the 70s.
Thanks again Bruce for your wonderful CDs!
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The only opt-out I have done thus far was for The Snows of Kilimanjaro, a title that was mirrored in the Varèse Herrmann at Fox box set. I certainly haven't been disappointed yet. It's been a steady stream of stuff that I either already knew I wanted (Victor Young at Paramount Volume 2, a more complete Hangover Square), something I'd been hoping for a reissue of (Delerue's The Pick-Up Artist), and some fun scores featuring Glenn Miller, which I rather enjoyed.
It's funny that so many associate Johnny Mandel with jazz… my first exposure to his music were his militaristic scores for M*A*S*H and The Last Detail.
I'm looking forward to this one.
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