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I wonder who now owns Frank DeVol's album of McLintock! (1963), or if the album tapes still exist?
I remember researching this one but because the film fell into public domain (although the music rights would not be) nobody was really willing to discuss it.
Lukas
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That's a good thought. It's a United Artists LP which has never been released on CD:
http://www.soundtrackcollector.com/title/19806/McLintock%21
Intrada has released a number of United Artists albums in the past, for example Goldsmith's Hour of the Gun. The production company for the film in this case was Batjac, and I vaguely recall that most scoring elements for Batjac projects are lost, so this might be a straight LP program to CD deal, although one never knows -- it's possible that the record label was sent tapes for the full score as Intrada recently discovered was the case with Barry's King Rat, so a complete score premiere might still be possible if a long shot.
Yavar
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Is "Dial 'M' For Murder" expected for this year or next?
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I wonder who now owns Frank DeVol's album of McLintock! (1963), or if the album tapes still exist?
I remember researching this one but because the film fell into public domain (although the music rights would not be) nobody was really willing to discuss it.
Lukas
When a film falls into the public domain, does the score, for example, Charade?
No. Depends.
Copyrights are different.
ITS A WONDERFUL LIFE fell into pd. But the owners were able to reclaim copyright because the story upon which the screenplay was based was copyrighted. I believe the same goes for the.music.
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I don't know exactly how it works, but I know even very very old copyrights which would normally fall into public domain, are somehow able to be renewed and held on to; Disney does this with a ferocious passion. And, as some of us here remember, the modern classical piece Mars, Bringer of War is still held onto and if you try to use the famous part of it (the only part most of us recall from the piece; how often is the rest parodied/homage?) without permission from the estate, you get sued (like Zimmer did; did he know? Did he think he could get away with it?).
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Posted: |
Oct 29, 2019 - 11:09 AM
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By: |
rmd007
(Member)
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Well, I don't know how much of an established pattern a sample size of two is, but if Goldsmith IS among the three non-Disney releases coming from Intrada this September, here are some possibilities (excluding Varese-owned titles, although LLL successfully sub-licensed with them recently for PotA so who knows?), taken from my ongoing thread here, "What Goldsmith scores are left to release?"
https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=90657&forumID=1&archive=0
Take Her, She's Mine (Fox) -- His first ever score to a comedy feature, Varese claimed tapes for this were unsalvageable in their Fox Box notes, but as with other scores, that may no longer be true thanks to new technology. If released, I'd buy it as a completist of course, but this is actually one of Goldsmith's more undistinguished efforts, a little bit above I.Q. on the totem pole. I speak from experience as I recently watched the film to produce a complete score breakdown (I also appended the official cue titles which I found later, lower in the thread): http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=113552&forumID=1&archive=0
CBS Playhouse: The People Next Door -- This is essentially a TV movie, and the score's main title foreshadows Chinatown. I will be doing a complete score breakdown on it in the future.
Lights Out (NBC) -- I think this was a horror pilot for a show that never went to series. It's something the Goldsmith Odyssey has been searching for on video, for some time now. It would be neat if someone released the score even while the program itself is MIA (as has happened occasionally, like with The Lineup, Archer, or The Going Up of David Lev).
Crawlspace (CBS) -- I don't believe it's ever been confirmed that the original recording for this is lost, but despite being one of Goldsmith's best unreleased works, no one has put it out yet so perhaps that doesn't bode well. I recently finished a full watch of the film and did a complete score breakdown with "advance liner notes" here: http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=116952&forumID=1&archive=0
Do Not Fold, Spindle, or Mutilate (ABC, which I believe is Disney-owned like Fox?) -- ditto, though I found this score much less interesting: http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=116974&forumID=1&archive=0
Anna and the King (Fox) -- while 16 minutes were included on the Varese Fox Box, they were from three episodes and that fact combined with some comments in the liner notes make me suspect Goldsmith recorded more for this series, which hopefully will be released complete in the future...my money's on Intrada pairing it with A Tree Grows in Brooklyn.
The Don Is Dead (Universal) -- obscure but if the tapes survive I'm sure it'll come out from one of the labels with a relationship with the studio, and Intrada is one
Indict and Convict (ABC TV, produced by Universal) -- the main and end titles sound very promising: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lLxFz3qxpQ
so too does this key cue (about two and a half minutes long): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eepgx3M9pq0&feature=youtu.be&t=1m55s
S*P*Y*S (Fox) -- while a substantial suite was included on the Fox Box, this would make a great standalone reissue with any remaining salvageable music, plus John Scott's score for the international version. I recently uncovered a complete cue list for Jerry's score, and discovered quite a good chunk of unreleased music. My findings are posted a little ways down this thread on the score, if you are interested: https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=126278&forumID=1&archive=0
A Tree Grows in Brooklyn (Fox) -- As confirmed by zooba, Varese only released half of this lovely score on their Goldsmith at Fox box. Multiple lovely cues are unreleased, including this brief one he put on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iCdZRXGipI&feature=youtu.be
MacArthur (MCA --> UMG for album, film Universal) -- Intrada would be most likely to reissue/expand this. I think the LP was a re-recording, but even if it was the film recording it was not the complete score.
As you can see, there are fewer and fewer surviving things from this era for the labels to tackle, and most of those are TV. If we expand to consider more recent scores, there are at least three that seem within the realm of possibility (more if Varese's sublicensing cooperation continues):
Leviathan (MGM) -- DeputyRiley did a wonderful complete score breakdown here; I hope this one happens sooner or later, and apparently Varese does NOT maintain perpetuity rights on this title... near the bottom of this thread I appended an official complete cue list: http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=110196&forumID=1&archive=0
Mulan (Disney) -- if *anyone* can pull this off, it's Intrada. They have done every other Goldsmith/Disney collaboration, so it'd be fantastic if they could close the book on this for people who don't have the Academy promo...and supply some fantastic liner notes while they're at it. I hear Richard Kraft really pushed Goldsmith for this assignment and I suspect there's an interesting tale to be told about how he got the job.
The Last Castle (Decca --> UMG for album, film Dreamworks) -- presumably Intrada (outside chance of LaLaLand) might snag this, and I hope they do as there is some excellent music missing including some more powerful revised film versions of key cues...DeputyRiley did a wonderful complete score breakdown here, and near the bottom of this thread I appended the official unreleased cue titles found elsewhere: http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=110369&archive=0
Yavar
I noticed that "Shamus" was not on the list. Is that because it has been officially lost or the tapes didn't survive? I'd love to see that one.
RD
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Posted: |
Oct 29, 2019 - 11:09 AM
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By: |
rmd007
(Member)
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Well, I don't know how much of an established pattern a sample size of two is, but if Goldsmith IS among the three non-Disney releases coming from Intrada this September, here are some possibilities (excluding Varese-owned titles, although LLL successfully sub-licensed with them recently for PotA so who knows?), taken from my ongoing thread here, "What Goldsmith scores are left to release?"
https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=90657&forumID=1&archive=0
Take Her, She's Mine (Fox) -- His first ever score to a comedy feature, Varese claimed tapes for this were unsalvageable in their Fox Box notes, but as with other scores, that may no longer be true thanks to new technology. If released, I'd buy it as a completist of course, but this is actually one of Goldsmith's more undistinguished efforts, a little bit above I.Q. on the totem pole. I speak from experience as I recently watched the film to produce a complete score breakdown (I also appended the official cue titles which I found later, lower in the thread): http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=113552&forumID=1&archive=0
CBS Playhouse: The People Next Door -- This is essentially a TV movie, and the score's main title foreshadows Chinatown. I will be doing a complete score breakdown on it in the future.
Lights Out (NBC) -- I think this was a horror pilot for a show that never went to series. It's something the Goldsmith Odyssey has been searching for on video, for some time now. It would be neat if someone released the score even while the program itself is MIA (as has happened occasionally, like with The Lineup, Archer, or The Going Up of David Lev).
Crawlspace (CBS) -- I don't believe it's ever been confirmed that the original recording for this is lost, but despite being one of Goldsmith's best unreleased works, no one has put it out yet so perhaps that doesn't bode well. I recently finished a full watch of the film and did a complete score breakdown with "advance liner notes" here: http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=116952&forumID=1&archive=0
Do Not Fold, Spindle, or Mutilate (ABC, which I believe is Disney-owned like Fox?) -- ditto, though I found this score much less interesting: http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=116974&forumID=1&archive=0
Anna and the King (Fox) -- while 16 minutes were included on the Varese Fox Box, they were from three episodes and that fact combined with some comments in the liner notes make me suspect Goldsmith recorded more for this series, which hopefully will be released complete in the future...my money's on Intrada pairing it with A Tree Grows in Brooklyn.
The Don Is Dead (Universal) -- obscure but if the tapes survive I'm sure it'll come out from one of the labels with a relationship with the studio, and Intrada is one
Indict and Convict (ABC TV, produced by Universal) -- the main and end titles sound very promising: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lLxFz3qxpQ
so too does this key cue (about two and a half minutes long): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eepgx3M9pq0&feature=youtu.be&t=1m55s
S*P*Y*S (Fox) -- while a substantial suite was included on the Fox Box, this would make a great standalone reissue with any remaining salvageable music, plus John Scott's score for the international version. I recently uncovered a complete cue list for Jerry's score, and discovered quite a good chunk of unreleased music. My findings are posted a little ways down this thread on the score, if you are interested: https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=126278&forumID=1&archive=0
A Tree Grows in Brooklyn (Fox) -- As confirmed by zooba, Varese only released half of this lovely score on their Goldsmith at Fox box. Multiple lovely cues are unreleased, including this brief one he put on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iCdZRXGipI&feature=youtu.be
MacArthur (MCA --> UMG for album, film Universal) -- Intrada would be most likely to reissue/expand this. I think the LP was a re-recording, but even if it was the film recording it was not the complete score.
As you can see, there are fewer and fewer surviving things from this era for the labels to tackle, and most of those are TV. If we expand to consider more recent scores, there are at least three that seem within the realm of possibility (more if Varese's sublicensing cooperation continues):
Leviathan (MGM) -- DeputyRiley did a wonderful complete score breakdown here; I hope this one happens sooner or later, and apparently Varese does NOT maintain perpetuity rights on this title... near the bottom of this thread I appended an official complete cue list: http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=110196&forumID=1&archive=0
Mulan (Disney) -- if *anyone* can pull this off, it's Intrada. They have done every other Goldsmith/Disney collaboration, so it'd be fantastic if they could close the book on this for people who don't have the Academy promo...and supply some fantastic liner notes while they're at it. I hear Richard Kraft really pushed Goldsmith for this assignment and I suspect there's an interesting tale to be told about how he got the job.
The Last Castle (Decca --> UMG for album, film Dreamworks) -- presumably Intrada (outside chance of LaLaLand) might snag this, and I hope they do as there is some excellent music missing including some more powerful revised film versions of key cues...DeputyRiley did a wonderful complete score breakdown here, and near the bottom of this thread I appended the official unreleased cue titles found elsewhere: http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=110369&archive=0
Yavar
I noticed that "Shamus" was not on the list. Is that because it has been officially lost or the tapes didn't survive? I'd love to see that one.
RD
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I noticed that "Shamus" was not on the list. Is that because it has been officially lost or the tapes didn't survive? I'd love to see that one.
Yes, sadly -- I chose to leave it off because of this, from Lukas Kendall:
"Vol. 9, No. 20: The Last Run/Crosscurrent/The Scorpio Letters (Goldsmith/Grusin): We have made 2500 units and have 573 in stock. This was the first and only album in which we mixed Turner and Warner Bros. content—even though both libraries are owned by Warner Bros., they are administered separately, and it is costly and difficult to mix them. But I wanted more Goldsmith than the Last Run soundtrack album (only the re-recording survives, although it’s basically the same as the film performance), and Crosscurrent (aka The Cable Car Murder) was an intriguing curio with its early version of the Escape From the Planet of the Apes main title. I love this era of Goldsmith’s “mod” writing—“Border Crossing” from The Last Run is a prime example. Unfortunately two of the better scores in this style, Shamus and the ABC TV movie Pursuit, are kaput as far as master tapes. The Scorpio Letters is a Dave Grusin TV movie score starring the expressionless Alex Cord—when we did our first Silver Age Classics CD, Stagecoach, in which Cord had the thankless task of replacing John Wayne, I spent the whole movie wondering how do I recognize that guy? (He was “Archangel” on Airwolf.) Dave Grusin was great from day one…The Scorpio Letters is a little bit subdued for an espionage score but I always assumed that if people complained about two or more scores on a CD not quite going together, I would always ask, would you prefer the rest of the disc to be blank instead?"
https://filmscoremonthly.com/daily/article.cfm/articleID/6739/FSM-Catalog%E2%80%94Low-Quantities-Report-Part-6-CD-Vol.-9-2006/
Somehow all three of Jerry's prominent "mod" scores of the era are lost! Thankfully for The Last Run at least, an album recording was produced at the time so we have that at least even though the film recording is gone.
Technically I guess I shouldn't have included Take Her, She's Mine either since the Varese Fox Box liner notes say it is lost, but we've had multiple cases now of Fox scores being declared unsalvageable in the past and then recently released thanks to new technology, so it seems more likely still than Shamus or Pursuit, somehow.
Of course, miracles have also been known to happen so maybe there is still hope for Shamus and Pursuit someday. At the very least a new recording would be possible, if expensive.
Yavar
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Wow, that's crazy! I had never heard about the John Ottman score written so long after the movie.
Yavar
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I recall reading elsewhere they (the producers? The director?) didn't like the original score anyway, so replacing it was certainly an option for them.
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That would be so awesome if so.
Yavar
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Posted: |
Oct 29, 2019 - 6:02 PM
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By: |
TerraEpon
(Member)
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And, as some of us here remember, the modern classical piece Mars, Bringer of War is still held onto and if you try to use the famous part of it (the only part most of us recall from the piece; how often is the rest parodied/homage?) without permission from the estate, you get sued (like Zimmer did; did he know? Did he think he could get away with it?).
The Planets was PD in the USA (as well as Japan, Canada and some other areas) in 2000. Some places outside of the USA (most notably all of Europe, including the UK) it wasn't, though for the most part it became PD everywhere in 2005.
Maybe this influenced ol Hans's actions. Maybe not.
This has nothing to do with an estate 'holding on to it' (or whatever Disney does) but rather the actual way copyright works. Author + 50 or Author + 70 in most of the world -- in the US it's publish date + 95 (which was, until LAST YEAR, held steady at only stuff from before 1923 since that law became ).
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