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They should search the warehouse in Kansas where the 2-inch, first-generation tapes of SUPERMAN were found. I would not be surprised if RAISE THE TITANIC was in there, or some out-of-the-way facility like that.
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Still a holy grail if the original recordings are ever located, if they even exist...I refuse to give up ALL hope.
I bet this Lady has it stored in her attic.
Mrs. John Barry
Anyone here have her digits so This will end.
Having her digits will not make this end.
Will there be a tape of the complete original Raise The Titanic at the Barry home?
Very likely.
Would Mrs. Barry fight tooth and nail to make sure it never sees the light of day?
With absolute, inviolable certainty.
Cheers
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Still a holy grail if the original recordings are ever located, if they even exist...I refuse to give up ALL hope.
I bet this Lady has it stored in her attic.
Mrs. John Barry
Anyone here have her digits so This will end.
Having her digits will not make this end.
Will there be a tape of the complete original Raise The Titanic at the Barry home?
Very likely.
Would Mrs. Barry fight tooth and nail to make sure it never sees the light of day?
With absolute, inviolable certainty.
Cheers
Why is this? What is the story here?
SCOTT
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Posted: |
Jul 31, 2019 - 11:22 PM
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By: |
townerbarry
(Member)
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Still a holy grail if the original recordings are ever located, if they even exist...I refuse to give up ALL hope.
I bet this Lady has it stored in her attic.
Mrs. John Barry
Anyone here have her digits so This will end.
Having her digits will not make this end.
Will there be a tape of the complete original Raise The Titanic at the Barry home?
Very likely.
Would Mrs. Barry fight tooth and nail to make sure it never sees the light of day?
With absolute, inviolable certainty.
Cheers
Why is this? What is the story here?
SCOTT
When we start talking about why this is going on, most likely it all has to do with ...Money!
The major story I heard many moons ago involved John Barry, Michael Wilson, And Barbara Broccoli...They asked John Barry in the early stages of Tomorrow Never Dies, to score the James Bond Flic, But John Barry And his People reminded Broccoli and Wilson, they still owed Barry major funds from past royalties from the James Bond Series. Not sure if this is 100% a true fact.
But when players in charge of John Barry’s Music..it all has to do with...Money. Past, Present and Future. I have always heard that Mrs. John Barry is 100% Stingy with any future expanded Barry releases.
And Stephen Woolston knows a lot more about Barry than anyone else.
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I think most people who've dealt with Mrs. Barry have found her to be valiantly protective of JB's legacy and that's as much about what you don't assist with as what you do.
She could be charming. I spoke with her the night JB won the BAFTA lifetime achievement award and she was absolutely lovely and charming with me; and she enthusiastically gave me the email address I should use if I ever wanted to ask any questions for anything I wanted to write.
(This is when I still submitted articles to Soundtrack! and Music From The Movies.)
But she could also be a bit suspicious and distrusting, especially of fans.
Anyway, the main reason for my assertion is this:
One time, I asked her if Barry had retained any of his written scores and whether they'd ever be available for study like, for instance, Bernard Herrmann's scores. I was told very bluntly that John's scores were absolutely private and would never be made available, to anyone, for any purpose or project, ever.
It was the most absolute "No, never!" I've heard in my life.
I simply assume that would apply as much to JB's recordings as his written scores, and other people have told me they've experienced something similar.
I'm pretty confident if you rang her up and asked, "Hey, I'm one of John's fans. Would you be willing to lend out John's copy of Raise The Titanic so someone can put an official release out," you'd get told, "Absolutely no way."
(Along with, "How did you get this number? Don't ever call this number again.")
If it was a big-wig from, say, Sony asking, it might be a different story.
It might even be a different story if it was a fan label that has built a strong reputation.
But not you or me.
One might ask, "But surely she wants all John's music out."
And the answer to that is, actually probably not.
Even Jerry Goldsmith didn't want all his music out there, just the music he thought burnished his reputation.
I honestly don't know what Mr. and Mrs. Barry felt about Raise The Titanic. A reliable friend told me once that Barry considered it "not that good". Then again, like all flawed humans, Barry could also be inconsistent and I remember him speaking fondly on the music when the flag gets raised on the resurrected Titanic.
I honestly don't know for sure how they really felt about it, probably mixed feelings given it was such a notorious failure, but in terms of protecting his legacy, my guess is she wants people talking about Out Of Africa and Dances With Wolves, not Raise The Titanic.
I think Barry himself would have been more open to help get it out, even if he did think it wasn't that good, but I think Mrs. Barry is more ruthless than Barry himself was about managing what people get access to—and I'm sure she's doing it from the best of intentions, frustrating though it may be to us fans.
Anyway, the main reason for my assertion is her statement to me about his scores being private.
Cheers
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And Stephen Woolston knows a lot more about Barry than anyone else.
Thank you for the tribute, but I don't really deserve it. Folks like Geoff Leonard, Gareth Bramley, Pete Walker, Ian McDonald, Robert Wood, Richard Jolley and Jon Burlingame really deserve that title more than me.
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Because nothing honors the memory of a genius like hoarding art away in the manner of Gollum & his precious...
Very sad & selfish. Maybe one day a producer will approach her with the right tact & we lowly, sniveling fans will be blessed.
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Posted: |
Aug 1, 2019 - 4:27 PM
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By: |
Thomas
(Member)
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And Stephen Woolston knows a lot more about Barry than anyone else.
Thank you for the tribute, but I don't really deserve it. Folks like Geoff Leonard, Gareth Bramley, Pete Walker, Ian McDonald, Robert Wood, Richard Jolley and Jon Burlingame really deserve that title more than me.
Sure you do!
I remember reading before about the Moviola 2 album and JB considering Raise The Titanic for it, and then saying it didn't do anything for him. It always left me wondering if composers associate their music with how successful the movie was, regardless of how good their music may have been.
I'll gladly reiterate what I said near the start of the thread, the Silva rerecording is fantastic.
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About Tomorrow Never Dies, the story of how Barry nearly did that movie and then didn't was told very earnestly by Richard Kraft. I'm sure you'll find it on the board somewhere.
First, it's important to remember that the Barry's and the Broccoli's were good friends. Laurie Barry was one of Barbara Broccoli's best friends and the Barry's were godparents to at least one of Barbara's kids.
But by Tomorrow Never Dies, control of the Bond films was diluted.
In the days before Bond went into hiatus, if Cubby Broccoli wanted Barry he needed no one else's permission to have him. After the hiatus, it was more complicated.
Anyway, the story Richard Kraft told was that there were sticking points over Barry's fee and the suits' refusal to let him be involved with the title song. Richard tried his best to broker agreement and, if I recall what he said correctly, Barry was ready to compromise on the song but not the fee. Richard tried to bridge the difference by offering to return his fee and they got close to closing the deal, but they never landed it.
Search for Richard's first hand account, it'll be on this board somewhere.
Cheers.
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About Tomorrow Never Dies, the story of how Barry nearly did that movie and then didn't was told very earnestly by Richard Kraft. I'm sure you'll find it on the board somewhere.
First, it's important to remember that the Barry's and the Broccoli's were good friends. Laurie Barry was one of Barbara Broccoli's best friends and the Barry's were godparents to at least one of Barbara's kids.
But by Tomorrow Never Dies, control of the Bond films was diluted.
In the days before Bond went into hiatus, if Cubby Broccoli wanted Barry he needed no one else's permission to have him. After the hiatus, it was more complicated.
Anyway, the story Richard Kraft told was that there were sticking points over Barry's fee and the suits' refusal to let him be involved with the title song. Richard tried his best to broker agreement and, if I recall what he said correctly, Barry was ready to compromise on the song but not the fee. Richard tried to bridge the difference by offering to return his fee and they got close to closing the deal, but they never landed it.
Search for Richard's first hand account, it'll be on this board somewhere.
Cheers.
So how did John Barry feel about (I’m going to be somewhat sort of nice) City Of Prague Band recording their pitchy performance of Raise the Titanic, And by the way, even on dvd, John Barry’s Score is Brilliant and Still sounds Superior than any others efforts.
And the Richard Kraft Story I also heard...but I still think this all has to do with major funds. Being Owed? Being In Future Funds. I truly understand Mrs. John Barry...she ain’t letting go nothing..I also must remember to put..LOL after saying let’s ring up Mrs. John Barry...And by the way..if that is true that Barry never liked Raise The Titanic...But the Holy Grail Of John Williams...The Sugarland Express, Which he does not like Also...will be released...They All Thaw Out!!
Barry’s Raise The Titanic is 100% the Holy Grail..Along with..Moonraker and A View to a Kill.
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Thank you Stephen for your comprehensive response.
I've also heard that Laurie was a very effective gatekeeper, particularly with the fans, and I agree, probably with the best intentions.
If the tapes do exist, along with others, then we have to respect that she is keeping them hidden away for good reasons. I certainly don't see this as being in any way selfish.
Though maybe if someone (with enough clout!) went along and simply said "please".
But I think we need to look elsewhere for a set of tapes.
I'm no expert in soundtrack recording forensics but perhaps someone (with enough time and money) needs to start right at the beginning. Where were the tapes recorded in the first place? and see where we end up if there is a trail to follow.
But clearly there is interest in the soundtrack beyond just the fans. The recent DVD/Bluray release of the movie made particular mention of the "suite" as an extra.
Though we know John Barry himself was particularly despondent at the Moonraker release so it does seem a bit odd that these tapes haven't been located and released(though probably best for another thread!).
Moonraker was recorded in France...Could the Originals be there? Plus The Broccoli’s And Wilson have all that music in one form or another. Release The Tapes!
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Moonraker was recorded in France...Could the Originals be there? Plus The Broccoli’s And Wilson have all that music in one form or another. Release The Tapes!
Moonraker was recorded in France but it was dubbed in England. There is no reason to believe the tapes would have been shipped back to France after the dubbing as Davout was a recording facility not a storage facility.
Of course it's always possible that a backup was left there but like most recording facilities, they clean out their storage every once in a while.
Graham Rye positively identified the Moonraker recordings in crates at Pinewood Studios in 2000.
The whole 'Moonraker tapes are lost' thing seems like one of the biggest urban legends to come out of a misquotation. Back in 2003, when Lukas Kendall explained why they didn't do Moonraker, the reason was there was only budget for five new expansions and, besides, the tapes for Moonraker weren't stored in the same London facility as the others and they didn't have the time/budget to do any research to see if they were someplace else.
That got misquoted into 'The Moonraker tapes are lost', which, for all I know they may be, but that's not what Lukas said. They could very well be safe and catalogued at some other facility.
Cheers
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Would not the Barry estate in particular Mrs Barry have been involved in the licensing of the suite included on the DVD?
No, I don't think so.
To be clear (and I need to be, because things get misquoted on the internet), my post about Mrs. Barry's tendency to be a very strict guardian of Barry's private affairs and possessions is in reply to the comment that maybe Mrs. Barry would help out by loaning Barry's copy of the score, if he had one.
I'm confident she would not, at least not on a fan appeal. Like I said, maybe if it was a big-wig or someone she trusted, it could be different.
But I'm also confident that she doesn't really have a veto on whether people like Network Releasing can put an isolated score on a film, or release a CD, if they have the materials and have correctly licensed it.
I'm not an expert in these matters but I wouldn't assume that a composer's family has a veto on everything that gets released.
Cheers
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Stephen,
Whatever happened to Rob and Richard ?
I spent many happy hours in their shop on Cherry Tree Walk in Leeds.
Their knowledge of John Barry was incredible !
Hope they are both okay ?
As far as I know, yes, they are both well.
Since the shop folded, I haven't see them much. Richard is a friend on Facebook but is not very active. Robert, as far as I know, isn't on Facebook.
The last time I actually saw them was at the John Barry memorial concert, where they introduced me to Barry's sister June. They were very much their old selves that evening.
I do miss the days I spent at their shop too.
Cheers
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