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 Posted:   Apr 24, 2021 - 7:13 PM   
 By:   Totoro   (Member)

Hans Zimmer is for me a very good producer, not composer. No one can program synths this good like him.

But I have two questions:

Why he need 3-11 Additional Composers?
Why he need 3-8 Orchestrators?

The only thing he does alone is synth progamming.


But like I said in a previous post, I like some of Zimmers music... I even like that Inception BRRAAAAWWWWM.
But my question will always be: Is this actually composed by him?
He is not my favourite composer and he'll never be but I would say he is somewhere in my top 15.


Why does Marco Beltrami need 3-11 additional compsoers? Why does John Powell need 3-8 orchestrators? Same reason. Why does Brian Tyler and Michael Giacchino work with assistants? Same reason. Do you ask the same questions?

They do it to dominate a competitive environment. Hans Zimmer is one of the top composers working in Hollywood today. To say anything otherwise is just being disingenuous.


 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2021 - 8:23 PM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)



I was a huge Zimmer fan in the beginning but started to lose interest when his scores became more atmospheric in nature. Though that's not to say I don't like some of his more recent scores like Alice in Wonderland and certainly WW84. I think the biggest gripe is how his stye has taken over the industry and how he created the film score factory farm which spread and homogenized the industry and Hollywood scoring soundscape even more.


Alice in Wonderland?


Right, wasn't that Elfman?


Zimmer? Elfman? Pfft! What's the diff? big grin

 
 Posted:   May 12, 2021 - 9:38 AM   
 By:   jkruppa   (Member)


I was a huge Zimmer fan in the beginning but started to lose interest when his scores became more atmospheric in nature. Though that's not to say I don't like some of his more recent scores like Alice in Wonderland and certainly WW84. I think the biggest gripe is how his style has taken over the industry and how he created the film score factory farm which spread and homogenized the industry and Hollywood scoring soundscape even more.


This is why I think he's the most successful composer currently: because Hollywood filmmaking itself has become more homogenized and more like an assembly line. In that sense, he's the ideal composer for this time. He's efficient, he's a smart businessman, and he does what needs to be done for the projects he works on.

As a matter of taste, I can't say he really does anything for me, but I recognize his impact. You need only look over his filmography to see that he's also very talented. I find it odd that people defend him so ardently, though, like loving music is the same as cheering for a sports team. It's like going "Mozart never, Ravel forever!"

 
 
 Posted:   May 12, 2021 - 10:07 AM   
 By:   Jurassic T. Park   (Member)

This is why I think he's the most successful composer currently: because Hollywood filmmaking itself has become more homogenized and more like an assembly line. In that sense, he's the ideal composer for this time. He's efficient, he's a smart businessman, and he does what needs to be done for the projects he works on.

As a matter of taste, I can't say he really does anything for me, but I recognize his impact. You need only look over his filmography to see that he's also very talented. I find it odd that people defend him so ardently, though, like loving music is the same as cheering for a sports team. It's like going "Mozart never, Ravel forever!"


I enjoyed Zimmer's earlier Bruckheimer fare during the 90s because it was openly and honestly over-the-top, but the new stuff constantly gets puffed up and marketed as being "experimental" when it's easily replicated and conceived of by any amateur composer with a free virtual soundscape and percussion loop library from pretty much any sample library provider.

Not just fans (which is expected) but contemporary reviewers and his own coworkers defend him vehemently, while no other composer has a similar entourage of sycophants around them.

Every composer has their faults but Zimmer's puffery only makes his worse.

I'll point you to my custom cover art for his work on WW84:

 
 Posted:   May 12, 2021 - 10:25 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Not just fans (which is expected) but contemporary reviewers and his own coworkers defend him vehemently, while no other composer has a similar entourage of sycophants around them.

Yeah, this. And I love your “interview template” — LOL!

My favorite Zimmer is usually when he does smaller scale projects. Spanglish was an incredibly wonderful pleasant surprise some years back — but that’s not the sort of project he’s been getting lately.

Yavar

 
 Posted:   May 12, 2021 - 10:26 AM   
 By:   Thierry Schreurs   (Member)

He changed the face of Film Music.
And his Legend will live on...Forever!


Kevin, is this a joke or what?

Hans Zimmer can be rather good sometimes, I can admit that (BLACK RAIN, RADIO FLYER, THE ROCK (thank you Nick Glennie-Smith for the latter)....) but overall, with the basement of sound design that he has helped to create through Media Ventures output over the last 3 decades, he is eventually I am afraid the worst thing that ever happened to film music art in Hollywood...since he established new standards!

The "problem" is that Zimmer has been so successful in Hollywood with tons of blockbuster or Academy award A-list movies to his credit that his style has now become a major and definitive trend. I suspect that the genius behind this success is not that much Zimmer but his very agents at Gorfaine & Schwartz....who obviously are very clever in selecting the right projects that will be successfull and or will enhance his carreer....

He had been sometimes greatly influential in the good way too, to be honest, and I salute the Mark Mancina output (SPEED, SPEED 2, TWISTER)...very effective leitmotives with nice melodies.

However, I am very sad of how Hans Zimmer did "infect" James Newton Howard old style for instance.
They are good friend and I respect that, a strong relationship probably reinforced through their collaboration on THE DARK KNIGHT. But there was a period when JNH did some scores the good old way, à la Michael Kamen/Jerry Goldsmith, like THE PACKAGE, THE FUGITIVE or OUTBREAK, this old fashion style culminating with KING KONG in 2005, a masterpiece body of film scoring. But after that, he changed a lot his style and zimmerised his music.

It seems that John Powell did the opposite journey: he was very zimmerised in style in his old FACE OFF period, than did PAYCHECK and the BOURNE franchise and after that did expand his style to a more symphonic approach, like in SOLO or PAN.

But Hans Zimmer huge influence remains as big as embarassing for all of us who like the old fashion film music.
Wanna get an up-to-date antivirus to Zimmer invasion? Just listen to Bruce Broughton, John Debney, Joel McNeely and Andrew Cottee's THE ORVILLE Season 1 and 2....

The problem must be the current lack of musical education from the powers-that-be in Hollywood.
Plus the hectic production schedules and constant last minute editing changes that are less and lesser compatible with a symphonic scoring process.

With James Horner in Heaven and John Williams semi-retired, I have bad feelings for the future of film music.

I just hope now that Alan Silvestri will keep his classical symphonic touch and won't ever zimmerise his music...
He proofed with his Marvel output that this is still possible....

 
 
 Posted:   May 12, 2021 - 10:31 AM   
 By:   celluloid70   (Member)

Pass and Pass......... Again

 
 Posted:   May 12, 2021 - 11:14 AM   
 By:   johnonymous86   (Member)

I echo Thierry's thoughts--some of the artists that Zim has collaborated with over the years have produced some great stuff, specifically Powell and Mancina.

However...

Zim himself is boring. Just because somebody keeps getting work in Hollywood, this does not equate talent. It equates business acumen. Listening to a Zim score is like watching a Tom Cruise acting performance--you always know what you're gonna get. I can understand why directors might like this in music because it means they can keep a modicum of control over a creative process that is historically above their knowledge base, knowing that they're getting a composer who isn't going to come back with something completely avant guard and wrong for their vision. It probably minimizes the amount of "technical" conversations between the director and composer who can focus on the soft stuff like "feel" and "motivation."

 
 Posted:   May 12, 2021 - 11:27 AM   
 By:   Spinmeister   (Member)

…my custom cover art for his work on WW84:

Thanks for the chuckle.

 
 
 Posted:   May 12, 2021 - 11:29 AM   
 By:   KeV McG   (Member)

"Kevin, is this a joke or what?"
------------------------------
Actually Thierry, it is...or was.
At the time I started the thread, there were a spate of threads with people trying to turn subjective thoughts and opinions into cold hard facts.
I just threw this one in there like the proverbial spanner in the works wink

 
 Posted:   May 12, 2021 - 11:32 AM   
 By:   BillCarson   (Member)

Ok, hands up who revived this dead duck? Lol.

 
 Posted:   May 12, 2021 - 11:33 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

I don’t think it’s fair to say Zimmer is devoid of musical talent or interesting ideas, even though I do agree he’s overall been a detriment to film music. But I think in many ways he is the modern Dmitri Tiomkin: he has an even greater talent for self-promotion (and, to be fair, pleasing his collaborators), and that’s why he gets the attention and reputation.

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   May 12, 2021 - 12:03 PM   
 By:   KeV McG   (Member)

"Ok, hands up.."
-------------
Aye Bill, nothing worse than a floater rising back up after a good flush wink

 
 Posted:   May 12, 2021 - 2:39 PM   
 By:   JohnnyG   (Member)

I don’t think it’s fair to say Zimmer is devoid of musical talent or interesting ideas, even though I do agree he’s overall been a detriment to film music. But I think in many ways he is the modern Dmitri Tiomkin: he has an even greater talent for self-promotion (and, to be fair, pleasing his collaborators), and that’s why he gets the attention and reputation.

Yavar



No one says that Zimmer has no musical talent. He is a modestly talented composer.

(Hmm... a Dimitri Tiomkin without the melodies?)

 
 
 Posted:   May 12, 2021 - 6:17 PM   
 By:   Mephariel   (Member)

I don’t think it’s fair to say Zimmer is devoid of musical talent or interesting ideas, even though I do agree he’s overall been a detriment to film music. But I think in many ways he is the modern Dmitri Tiomkin: he has an even greater talent for self-promotion (and, to be fair, pleasing his collaborators), and that’s why he gets the attention and reputation.

Yavar



No one says that Zimmer has no musical talent. He is a modestly talented composer.

(Hmm... a Dimitri Tiomkin without the melodies?)


I don’t think it’s fair to say Zimmer is devoid of musical talent or interesting ideas, even though I do agree he’s overall been a detriment to film music. But I think in many ways he is the modern Dmitri Tiomkin: he has an even greater talent for self-promotion (and, to be fair, pleasing his collaborators), and that’s why he gets the attention and reputation.

Yavar



No one says that Zimmer has no musical talent. He is a modestly talented composer.

(Hmm... a Dimitri Tiomkin without the melodies?)


I'll never understand the "without melodies" argument. If you make a list of composers who wrote memorable themes even in just the last 20 years, I think Zimmer is up there. Is just that along the way, Zimmer also wrote a lot of abstract music.

Zimmer is immensely talented. That is much clear. The fact that he is able write so many great scores without a formal music education speaks to that.

I think the question with Zimmer for me is, would he have had a better legacy if he spent all his time writing music that the film music community likes while sacrificing popularity.

 
 
 Posted:   May 12, 2021 - 6:53 PM   
 By:   Grack21   (Member)

No

 
 Posted:   May 12, 2021 - 7:05 PM   
 By:   Totoro   (Member)

I'll never understand the "without melodies" argument. If you make a list of composers who wrote memorable themes even in just the last 20 years, I think Zimmer is up there. Is just that along the way, Zimmer also wrote a lot of abstract music.

Zimmer is immensely talented. That is much clear. The fact that he is able write so many great scores without a formal music education speaks to that.

I think the question with Zimmer for me is, would he have had a better legacy if he spent all his time writing music that the film music community likes while sacrificing popularity.




 
 
 Posted:   May 13, 2021 - 1:42 AM   
 By:   Tobias   (Member)

I do not think Hans Zimmer is the best film composer because that for me personally is Jerry Goldsmith.

But with that said I do have huge respect for Zimmer mainly because he made people who usually don`t listen to film scores actually listen to film scores. I personally know people who is not into film music but they do know who Hans Zimmer is and even like (some) of his music and that is in my book respect since I always love when people who usually is not into film music talk positive things about it and thanks to him people who usually don`t listen to film mjusic do have nice things to say about film music and I really like that. So thank you Mr. Zimmer for that.

But that does not make him the best film composer ever, as they say close but no cigarr.

 
 Posted:   May 13, 2021 - 1:45 AM   
 By:   David Mueller   (Member)

I think that his composing level is somewhere between avarage and good. He just didn't use his skill since 2014 or so (except WW84 IMO). I just don't get why he writes ~10 hours of sketches and then hire 10 other people to fit it to picture. He could in this time... well.. instead of writing hours of sketches.. you know... write two hours of music that is actually used in the film. It's total fine to me when a composer write theme suites like John Williams do. But I don't need a 28 minute suite of Meen of Steel ideas or 70 mins of sketches of Dark Pheonix or WW84 which just doesn't have a good sound quality. Hans Zimmer has become the composer of quantity, not quality.

 
 Posted:   May 13, 2021 - 2:54 AM   
 By:   acathla   (Member)

I think that his composing level is somewhere between avarage and good. He just didn't use his skill scince 2014 or so (except WW84 IMO). I just don't get why he writes ~10 hours of sketches and then hire 10 other people to fit it to picture. He could in this time... well.. instead of writing hours of sketches.. you know... write two hours of music that is actually used in the film. It's total fine to me when a composer write theme suites like John Williams do. But I don't need a 28 minute suite of Meen of Steel ideas or 70 mins of sketches of Dark Pheonix or WW84 which just doesn't have a good sound quality. Hans Zimmer has become the composer of quantity, not quality.

I love both those sketches albums! So glad they were released!

 
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