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Posted: |
Feb 14, 2011 - 9:52 AM
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By: |
Per
(Member)
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The main title sounds BETTER without them.
I agree. When we only had the Milan CD, those punching sounds where alright. They don't really "fit" in there (in the music), but it were alright. However, when you get to hear the same without those punching sounds, you realize it does indeed sound weird with those sounds, and it is clearly better (as a listening experience) without them.
The mixes without those sounds should really be on this new edition. I will be really surprised, and/or a bit disappointed if only the punching sound mix(es) are included.
If they (and not necessarely talking about the labels here, but perhaps more the studios themselves (or the owners of the music), which I guess have the final word on what should, and could be licensed of material) really want to stop the demands for, and "value" (as in the crave for the music itself) of these unofficial versions, the best way to go is to simply release it all. Or, in the cases where unofficial material is out there, such as with Broken Arrow, at least, as a minimum, include everything that's on the unofficial version... (which in this case would mean the mixes without the punching sounds should be included). And hopefully all the other cues, in their original form. Only then I would discard my unofficial version entirely 
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Posted: |
Feb 14, 2011 - 10:05 AM
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By: |
Per
(Member)
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I hope the film version (I assume that's what"s being released) is still as good as the original album. This is really awesome!!
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you by "film version" mean the "original cues", or "cues in their original form" before they were shortened and combined on the old album !? (...since the music on the original album is (still) the same as the music in the film, only edited on album. Hence, it will actually sound 'exactly' as good
If so, I totally agree, I as well hope they will release the music cues in their original form, and not edited like on the original album...
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Edit: Firstly, if I could choose, I would ALWAYS go with the original, non-edited cue, simply because, if you'd like too, you can easily make your own combinations/edits of those cues. But you can't split, or re-create, a shortened/combined piece back into the original pieces before they were edited !
When that's said, to compare the original cues with how they appear on the original album, there might be a couple of pieces which could be a better, or easier, listening experience on the original album, and that could be for instance "Hale Alone In Desert / Hale Meets Terry" (which is 1st part of track 3 on original album), and also perhaps "Hale & Deak Talk / Nukes Armed / Deak To Mine / Shootout" (track 4+5 (minus the last 2 min on track 5) on original album). These edited versions has moments where you have more of a 'flow' to them, not so much "pauses" in the music, in parts.
But even though some moments 'flow' better on the shortened version, I would still go for the full, original cue, simply because there are other pieces on the original cues which has also been removed on the edited stuff. Like for instance the very beginning (only for a few seoconds, but still...) of the first cue I mentioned, it has a cool 'something' (don't know what it is, lol), but on the original album this has only been cutted (or faded away), and there are parts on the other cue I mentioned as well that I prefer to have, which also was removed on the original album. So all in all, everything non-edited would be the best. And for those who prefer the stuff edited, well, they already have the original album
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Posted: |
Feb 15, 2011 - 4:53 AM
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By: |
HudsonHawk
(Member)
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BROKEN ARROW: LIMITED EDITION (2CD-SET) LLLCD 1164
Music by Hans Zimmer
Limited Edition of 3000 Units
STARTS SHIPPING FEB. 15th
RETAIL PRICE $24.98
ORDER "BROKEN ARROW: LIMITED EDITION (2CD-SET)" FEB. 15th at www.lalalandrecords.com
Presenting the remastered and expanded 2CD-SET of renowned composer Hans Zimmer's (INCEPTION, SHERLOCK HOLMES, THELMA & LOUISE, BLACK RAIN, RAIN MAN) score to the 1996 Twentieth Century Fox hit actioner BROKEN ARROW, starring John Travolta, Christian Slater and Samantha Mathis and directed by John Woo. Zimmer's breakneck electronic, Morricone-tinged score not only propels the film's considerable action mayhem, but it also effectively buoys director Woo's trademark themes of honor, friendship and betrayal, essentially creating a highly-charged emotional subtext for the movie's fast-paced tale of hijacked nuclear weapons. Famed guitarist Duane Eddy performs the guitar licks on what would become one of the score's iconic themes. Produced by Nick Redman, restored by Mike Matessino and mastered by Daniel Hersch, this special release of BROKEN ARROW features more than 30 minutes of previously unreleased score. Additionally, three suites from the original soundtrack release are presented as BONUS TRACKS and the CD booklet features exclusive, in-depth liner notes from film music writer Al Kaplan. This is a limited edition of 3000 Units.
TRACK LISTING:
Disc ONE:
1. Rope-A-Dope (5:04)
2. The Bomber (2:31)
3. Going To War/
Fire In A Brooklyn Theater* (6:30)
4. The Pentagon (Unused)* (1:16)
5. The Search/Broken Arrow (2:42)
6. Desert Dawn (3:40)
7. Day Search (1:28)
8. Right Down There (3:26)
9. Something's Coming (3:50)
10. 10,000 Years* (2:15)
11. Humvee Chase (4:54)
12. Mine Shaft 1 (1:53)
13. Mine Shaft 2* (15:49)
RUNNING TIME DISC ONE: 55:18
Disc TWO:
1. Big Bang (2:15)
2. Butterflies (1:57)
3. The Boat/Stowaway* (3:27)
4. Breaking Orders* (2:18)
5. Eat A Bullet (2:15)
6. Hammerhead* (17:04)
7. Nuke Disarmed
(End Credits) (7:40)
BONUS TRACKS:
8. Brothers (Original Album Version) (7:07)
9. Mine (Original Album Version)* (5:43)
10. Nuke (Original Album Version) (10:52)
RUNNING TIME DISC TWO: 60:38
Total Running Time : 115:56
* Contains music "Fire in a Brooklyn Theater" composed by Randy Edelman from the film Come See The Paradise.
I could have without 23 minutes worth of score from the Milan album.
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The Edelman credits definitely is a joke...
La-La should reissue Unstoppable and add "contains music written by Hans Zimmer for the movie The Dark Knight" or Hitman and add "contains music written by John Powell for the movie The Bourne Supremacy" then...
It might be inspired (temp track ?) for sure but... seriously ?
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The Edelman credits definitely is a joke...
La-La should reissue Unstoppable and add "contains music written by Hans Zimmer for the movie The Dark Knight" or Hitman and add "contains music written by John Powell for the movie The Bourne Supremacy" then...
It might be inspired (temp track ?) for sure but... seriously ?
I think "Tracks contains Themes inspired by... " would be the correct label! ;-)
Maybe there were some copyright issues after the soundtrack release and now LLL has to name this! Like the case with the 300-score and Elliot Goldenthal... I don't know! But it's not a big problem, It's simply great to get a Zimmer-Expansion :-)
Yeah sure otherwise the tracklist looks perfect !
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Posted: |
Feb 15, 2011 - 10:51 AM
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By: |
Per
(Member)
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Disc ONE:
1. Rope-A-Dope (5:04)
2. The Bomber (2:31)
3. Going To War/
Fire In A Brooklyn Theater* (6:30)
4. The Pentagon (Unused)* (1:16)
5. The Search/Broken Arrow (2:42)
6. Desert Dawn (3:40)
7. Day Search (1:28)
8. Right Down There (3:26)
9. Something's Coming (3:50)
10. 10,000 Years* (2:15)
11. Humvee Chase (4:54)
12. Mine Shaft 1 (1:53)
13. Mine Shaft 2* (15:49)
Disc TWO:
1. Big Bang (2:15)
2. Butterflies (1:57)
3. The Boat/Stowaway* (3:27)
4. Breaking Orders* (2:18)
5. Eat A Bullet (2:15)
6. Hammerhead* (17:04)
7. Nuke Disarmed
(End Credits) (7:40)
BONUS TRACKS:
8. Brothers (Original Album Version) (7:07)
9. Mine (Original Album Version)* (5:43)
10. Nuke (Original Album Version) (10:52)
It would seem like those last 5 min. still missing (in any form) are included (track 7+8 CD1), that's great news !  ... and we're even getting like 20 sec. +/- of unused material in track 8 it would seem (although most of those seconds are just a lot of shooting sfx in the film, so hard to tell if there's no music all the time...)
I'll say I'm 99,9 % happy with the tracklist. Most of the cues are in their original form, except for the 2 shortest tracks, which seem to be added to the end (?) of track 2 and 3 on disc 1. Don't ask me why 30 second cues always have to be combined with other cues, it doesn't necessarely make it a better listening experience. But when it's like that, it's fine. I'm just glad I already have the longest cues with 'clean' fades at the end... but from the track lengths, those shorter tracks could actually fit after the other with silence between. If so, that would be perfect. Maybe contractual reasons for not having short cues in separate tracks ?!
And what's up with the tracknames. Most are alright I guess, but some are really weird. Like for instance track 3 (part 2) (it should have been track 5  ), "Fire In A Brooklyn Theater", which is just a stupid name. It's probably, like with most of these things, some contractual reasons for the names etc., so that's fine as well, I won't go any deeper into that. Besides, I really only care for the music
* Contains music "Fire in a Brooklyn Theater" composed by Randy Edelman from the film Come See The Paradise.
I'd say this is a joke as well. Must be, again, some contractual reasons for this as well. Probably, like has been mentioned, as a result of a lawsuit perhaps (?) back when the film/original album came out, because what Zimmer wrote might have been too similar as that other theme (don't know that score though).
As for the bonus material, assuming track 1 disc 1 would be the mix without the punching sounds, to have the mix with the punching sound as a bonus is fine. But beyond those punching sound, it does not offer anything else (not even as a listening experience; no bits and pieces in the middle are cutted) than what's already in the original cues. it's just that the end of "track 1, disc 1" is overlapped like 5-6 s. with "track 3, disc 1" (first few seconds on that is cutted), and I wonder how the end of that bonus ""suite"" sounds like (weird fadeout ?), since that track "cuts" off that cue in the middle (the same cue continues seamlessly into track 2 on the album). And the other bonus tracks, with the exception that it in parts may have a better flow to it, it does not offer anything whatsoever different than what's already in the original cue.
Anyway, to sum things up, since what I have written may sound a bit too much negative(which it isn't really, just stating the facts, with a touch of my own opinion on things):
I don't really care for the tracknames, nor the bonus material (it's perfectly fine it's there, just a bit surprised not all of the original album would be included, it would fit nicely on top of the 93 min. full score, lol), so overall a (without having actually listened to it yet) 9,99/10 rating. Or if you put an emphasis on what I really hoped would be included, which would seem to be track 7+8 disc 1, a clear 10/10 from me ! Thank you La-La Land. And I mean that
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Posted: |
Feb 15, 2011 - 12:13 PM
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By: |
Per
(Member)
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Im just wondering why CD1/13 and CD2/1 are split? In the movie they segway into each other seamlessly and clearly thats how they were meant to end up, so its not like some "film version" mixing. Perhaps its a good place to split the discs? But it looks great. Ive been after those canyon cues for years. They were missing from the 2cd expanded boot (I assume because Zimmer didnt wholly compose them) but to have them now is great.
On the other hand, 10,000 Years isnt on any bootleg release and the end credits are a few seconds longer as well. Oh man, I cant wait to get this CD!!!
So stoked about this!!! Wonder how they they mixed the album suites, as some of them segway into each other on the Milan album.
Not long to go, folks!!!
It's correct that in the film track 1 CD2 starts straight away after track 13 CD1, but although it sound like they play seamlessly, they're not. You can clerly hear where one stops, and the other starts. I had no problem find the exact place anyway. The way these tracks are presented on the CD is how they were originally made. Music cues are more than often edited to fit the film, so how they appear in the film isn't necessarely how they are originally.
10,000 Years, if you're talking about CD1, track 10, that is actually (I believe anyway) "Giles & Lomax Compare Notes / Haz-Mat Team", which is track 10, CD1 on the unofficial version. "10,000 Years" probably refers to "Deakins" statement about what would happen if they wouldn't pay; "... The South-West will be a quiet neighborhood for about 10,000 years". But although this track starts immediately after this, I would rather have used something that would describe what was going on during the music; they discuss the crash, the state of the nuclear weapons, etc., and then when the Haz-Mat/NEST team are on their way...
The End Credits are only like 5 seconds longer, so it's probably just some extra silence I would guess (or a minor typo in the tracklist) (?)
I wonder about the "Brothers" bonus track as well, how they did the end of that, since that seques into the next track on the original release (which is not included here). The other two, "Mine" and "Nuke" seques into eachother as well on the original album, but they have a 'clean' start and end, they are not combined with any of the other tracks.
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Posted: |
Feb 15, 2011 - 1:22 PM
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By: |
Per
(Member)
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It's correct that in the film track 1 CD2 starts straight away after track 13 CD1, but although it sound like they play seamlessly, they're not. You can clerly hear where one stops, and the other starts.
Ive watched the film recently and they play together, with no sign of a gap?
There's no gap, or silence between in the film, no. I just meant you can quite easily tell where one cue stop, and the other start. The 'transition' (correct word ?) isn't that bad, but let's say you had the music exactly like it is mixed in the film, separated from the sounds in the film, I guess it would have sounded a bit like a weird fade/combination. If you know what I mean...
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Posted: |
Feb 15, 2011 - 1:52 PM
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By: |
Per
(Member)
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I get you. Still, its not uncommon for a composer to compose two separate pieces that are intended to be one cue when mixed (Bombers Away/African Rundown in Casino Royale, for example). This is one of those cases, and to me, it would have made sense to make them one cue, as in the movie. However, its a nice way to start Disc 1 and begin Disc 2 with the way they are now. It means one disc finishes with an action-packed ending, and the next starts with one
Agreed. When they record the music, they usually (? ... it is done anyway, even though maybe not with everything) record bits and pieces separately (not talking about separate sessions for strings, brass etc., but that the total length of the cues are not played, and recorded in one continuous take) and put them together when they mix the stuff.
Anyway, in this case with those cues in Broken Arrow, I think it's best to have it like it is, regardless how good they would sound combined ... simply because one cue is already 15 min, and making that even longer I wouldn't see the point in (to name one reason).
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