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 Posted:   Mar 1, 2021 - 7:15 AM   
 By:   Peter Atterberg   (Member)

Yes, the early, more experimental 70s Tangerine Dream is an acquired taste. Like David, I've really come to appreciate stuff like that over the years (and there's no denying the pioneering aspect of SORCERER), but for sheer "informal" listening pleasure, I tend to go for the 80s and 90s stuff more often.

I too started off with their 80s and 90d stuff. The expanded score for Thief is the first work I ever purchased by them. That was my introduction to them. Most of their work that I listen to is not based on movie but if I have sampled the album and loved it enough to buy it.

Was the original Loved by the Sun from a movie work? I really love that track.

 
 Posted:   Mar 1, 2021 - 7:39 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

Well, I got SORCERER now in the 2-CD recording Tangerine Dream made in 2014... I just sampled a few tracks (just on my computer, since I got it via Qobuz; I hope I have my music system back up and running by tomorrow evening), and I think I'm going to enjoy this one. This was their first film score, IIRC. (Terrific movie, by the way... always had it in the back of my mind to investigate the score one day.)

 
 Posted:   Mar 1, 2021 - 8:50 AM   
 By:   First Breath   (Member)

Yes, the early, more experimental 70s Tangerine Dream is an acquired taste. Like David, I've really come to appreciate stuff like that over the years (and there's no denying the pioneering aspect of SORCERER), but for sheer "informal" listening pleasure, I tend to go for the 80s and 90s stuff more often.

I too started off with their 80s and 90d stuff. The expanded score for Thief is the first work I ever purchased by them. That was my introduction to them. Most of their work that I listen to is not based on movie but if I have sampled the album and loved it enough to buy it.

Was the original Loved by the Sun from a movie work? I really love that track.


From LEGEND.

 
 Posted:   Mar 1, 2021 - 8:54 AM   
 By:   First Breath   (Member)

Well, I got SORCERER now in the 2-CD recording Tangerine Dream made in 2014... I just sampled a few tracks (just on my computer, since I got it via Qobuz; I hope I have my music system back up and running by tomorrow evening), and I think I'm going to enjoy this one. This was their first film score, IIRC. (Terrific movie, by the way... always had it in the back of my mind to investigate the score one day.)

They had done some scores in Germany in the early 70s.

 
 Posted:   Mar 2, 2021 - 2:19 PM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

Listening to SORCERER right now, and it goes straight to the top of things I ever heard of TANGERINE DREAM. They must have enjoyed it too, as I don't remember them re-recording any of their other film scores.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 2, 2021 - 5:19 PM   
 By:   goozer   (Member)

Sorcerer is a brilliant album, and an essential purchase for anyone who follows TD. The 2014 remake is not. I continue to be in slack-jawed amazement about the accolades given this product. The original album has been reperformed in the then-current TD fashion, while managing to come across a second-rate cover band, with two of the tracks so badly overdubbed and brutalized ("Main Titles" = "In The Mist Of The Night" and "Rain Forest" = "Fast Ride To Disaster") that they are relegated to the second disc to sit amongst tracks that can claim to be based on original fragments and notes until the cows come home, since what was left behind in the pasture is more in keeping with this reality. There is no way that I can honestly and objectively listen to this side by side with the original release and conclude that they share anything at all besides the name of the band, which seems more like a typo given the diametric differences in mood, theme, style, and sonic palette.

Since all taste is indeed in the mouth, I refuse to eat a $hit sandwich and tell you it's steak.

YMMV

 
 Posted:   Mar 2, 2021 - 5:57 PM   
 By:   DJS   (Member)

Sorcerer is a brilliant album, and an essential purchase for anyone who follows TD. The 2014 remake is not. I continue to be in slack-jawed amazement about the accolades given this product. The original album has been reperformed in the then-current TD fashion, while managing to come across a second-rate cover band, with two of the tracks so badly overdubbed and brutalized ("Main Titles" = "In The Mist Of The Night" and "Rain Forest" = "Fast Ride To Disaster") that they are relegated to the second disc to sit amongst tracks that can claim to be based on original fragments and notes until the cows come home, since what was left behind in the pasture is more in keeping with this reality. There is no way that I can honestly and objectively listen to this side by side with the original release and conclude that they share anything at all besides the name of the band, which seems more like a typo given the diametric differences in mood, theme, style, and sonic palette.

Since all taste is indeed in the mouth, I refuse to eat a $hit sandwich and tell you it's steak.

YMMV


Exactly this. Now had they added some sax to it... big grin

 
 Posted:   Mar 3, 2021 - 12:30 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

Can't say that I agree, I compared a few tracks on the new album and the older one (like "The Grid"). They sure sound differently, with the newer one more fleshed out and way more detailed sound, while the older one seems more dense and has some different electronic colors, but can't say that I would prefer it to the newer recording. I have no stakes in this, approaching both albums at the same time, so I have no pre-conceived notions about how this or that "should" sound.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 3, 2021 - 5:22 AM   
 By:   ROBERT Z   (Member)

I am completely disappointed by the treatment of The Keep which is more a "so so" and distant reconstruction than the original music from the movie, daring to call this recording "the original soundtrack " from the movie is a shame and a lie , I was told elsewhere that the group was familiar with this type of reconstruction but to the point of not finding the essentials of what we hear in the film is really disconcerting (or call it rejected cues if you want). Even the choral track borrowed from Thomas Tallis masterpiece is not as good as in the film version. If you still have any doubts about this issue buy the official DVD of the film finally released recently in Australia and hear the difference.
Will Someone at Paramount studios one day leave the publishing rights to one of our greats labels?

 
 Posted:   Mar 3, 2021 - 5:41 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

I am completely disappointed by the treatment of The Keep which is more a "so so" and distant reconstruction than the original music from the movie, daring to call this recording "the original soundtrack " from the movie is a shame and a lie , I was told elsewhere that the group was familiar with this type of reconstruction but to the point of not finding the essentials of what we hear in the film is really disconcerting (or call it rejected cues if you want). Even the choral track borrowed from Thomas Tallis masterpiece is not as good as in the film version. If you still have any doubts about this issue buy the official DVD of the film finally released recently in Australia and hear the difference.
Will Someone at Paramount studios one day leave the publishing rights to one of our greats labels?


So the original soundtrack is not the original soundtrack either? Because the 2014 recording does not claim to be "the original soundtrack". Not sure which version of "The Keep" you are referring to.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 3, 2021 - 5:50 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

THE KEEP is such a complex situation. I'm not into the nuts and bolts of things, I just enjoy a version I have (16 tracks, 1 hour) - even though the sound could always be better. I've never really obsessed about having the original, exactly-as-heard-in-the-film versions.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 3, 2021 - 5:58 AM   
 By:   ROBERT Z   (Member)

Not sure which version of "The Keep" you are referring to.

The Film version, what else ?
It's not obsession but the pleasure of hearing again and rediscovering the original atmosphere of the film that you can not found (or so few) in the TD's official recordings. Those who know the film well and who have appreciated it despite its flaws know what I'm talking about.

There seems other reasons for the OST not seeing the light of day since then however. According to TD's own website, "An official soundtrack has never been released due to disagreements between the film’s producer and Virgin Records". The exact nature of the 'disagreements' has not been revealed publicly. Ownership rights are complicated and the companies are changing hands or merging every few years. As of 2007 Sony/ATV Music Publishing owned the rights to publish soundtrack music from Viacom's Paramount Pictures subsidiary, including The Keep. As of 2012 BMG Rights Management owned Virgin Music, who owned the phono record rights to The Keep soundtrack, then Virgin merged with EMI to became Virgin EMI Records (now owned by Universal Music) in 2013. Virgin was listed on the 1997 TDI official The Keep soundtrack CD case, and Sony/ATV was listed on The Keep Cues limited edition CD case, which contained soundtrack music and sound effects copied directly from the film.

..."The OST music was finally heard in modified form on the 1997 OST release from TDI, then in its original form in the 2020 release by Virgin of the OST included in the Pilots Of Purple Twilight: The Virgin Recordings 1980-1983 CD/LP collection. Both releases contain mostly unused music and music that had nothing at all to do with the score heard in The Keep film. There is the possibility that some of it was intended to be in the the original two hour cut of the film, but got cut when Paramount wanted the film shortened. If any of this was presented to Mann, he may simply have chosen not to use it because it was too different from what he envisioned and what the visual style of the film dictated. Had the original music heard on the Virgin OST been used, the film would have come across as very different and much less dreamlike, in my opinion. Much of the final score, and probably also some of the temp score, came from TD's vast catalog of existing work. Mann constantly listened to their music before and during filming, as well as the music of performance artist Laurie Anderson. Apparently Anderson was called in to help mix the music score for The Keep at the last minute - uncredited. Actor Scott Glenn's odd speaking style in the film was also based on Anderson's spoken word performance style."...


http://www.kitrae.net/music/The%20Keep%20Soundtrack%20by%20Tangerine%20Dream.html

 
 Posted:   Mar 3, 2021 - 6:45 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

Not sure which version of "The Keep" you are referring to.

The Film version, what else ?


Sorry, my mistake, I thought you were referring to a cue from SORCERER, didn't notice we switched movies. :-)

THE KEEP is another Tangerine Dream score I should get.

 
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