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 Posted:   Dec 26, 2021 - 11:36 AM   
 By:   ghost of 82   (Member)

Oh, how modern historical epics like THE LAST DUEL could do with a score as good as THE LION IN WINTER.

A truer thing has not been posted on this forum all year. I heartily agree.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 26, 2021 - 12:04 PM   
 By:   townerbarry   (Member)

I remember the night of The Academy Awards when THIS film was up for its own 'Lion Share'. I was just a Junior High Schooler watching the show with my family. The film won 3 Oscars, and each time the film won, the orchestra would play out the main title theme. THIS, was probably the very beginning of my love of film music. I did not know who John Barry was, but THIS music heard whenever the film won, made its lasting impression upon me!

My strongest memory of THAT night was the overwhelming disappointment and anger when Cliff Robertson's name was called instead of Peter O'Toole's for Best Actor. It still rankles as one of the Academy's greatest miscarriages of justice.



Yes Sir…You are 100% Right!

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 26, 2021 - 12:19 PM   
 By:   townerbarry   (Member)

I knew John Barry's music from the Bond films, naturally, and was surprised by his score to "Born Free" for its departure from his jazzy, hip scores for Bond.

When I heard this score, however, I was mesmerized by the depth of his talents. Most of his score complements the film's rugged and somewhat violent nature, but this cue ("Chinon-Eleanor's Arrival") stunned me -- bowled me completely over -- and I have since been a die-hard fan of all his works!

In this scene, Eleanor of Aquitaine, wife of King Henry II, has been summoned by her husband to attend a Christmas court. He has kept her imprisoned (with luxuries of the time, of course) and in this scene she arrives.



I think many of you may say, "Oh, heck, Ron! Everyone knows this music!" I know that to be untrue as it has only been a few months since I discovered a very devoted film music fan had never heard it before.

So, it's for anyone unfamiliar...and for those who love the score, as well.




The scene was hampered by flooding on The River Rhône. You can see as Eleanor of Aquitaine, in The Barge Scene, Beautifully Played By Katharine Hepburn, who was Playing a Perfect Katharine Hepburn in the arrival. Knew where the Cameras were at all times! John Barry’s The Arrival of Eleanor was Haunting and Beautiful.

 
 Posted:   Dec 27, 2021 - 6:49 AM   
 By:   Paul MacLean   (Member)

Oh, how modern historical epics like THE LAST DUEL could do with a score as good as THE LION IN WINTER.

A truer thing has not been posted on this forum all year. I heartily agree.


I was thinking the exact same thing when I watched The Last Duel a few nights ago. "This movie could have used John Barry".

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 27, 2021 - 3:16 PM   
 By:   Steven Lloyd   (Member)

Oh, how modern historical epics like THE LAST DUEL could do with a score as good as THE LION IN WINTER.

I was thinking the exact same thing when I watched The Last Duel a few nights ago. "This movie could have used John Barry".


Unfortunately, what was proved more than once is that just because a composer would deliver a great score didn't mean that Ridley Scott had either the sense or the judgment to use it, as intended.

 
 Posted:   Jan 9, 2022 - 9:08 AM   
 By:   Paul MacLean   (Member)

Oh, how modern historical epics like THE LAST DUEL could do with a score as good as THE LION IN WINTER.

I was thinking the exact same thing when I watched The Last Duel a few nights ago. "This movie could have used John Barry".


Unfortunately, what was proved more than once is that just because a composer would deliver a great score didn't mean that Ridley Scott had either the sense or the judgment to use it, as intended.


Certainly true, that.

Though Ridley and Barry did once work together on a Kodak ad. Actually you could say the worked together twice, if you include Barry's re-recording of a cue from Sophia Loren in Rome for Scott's student film Boy on a Bicycle.

 
 Posted:   May 19, 2023 - 9:02 AM   
 By:   Juanki   (Member)

I own LEGACY'S release of 'THE LION IN WINTER' and always been very happy with it.

I've got the chance to buy the VARESE one, should I get it? It seems the content is the same but some people says it sounds better?

Thanks

 
 
 Posted:   May 19, 2023 - 4:22 PM   
 By:   villagardens553   (Member)

One of Barry's best cues. Even the film music critic Page Cook, who generally did not care for Barry, wrote that this cue was "stunning."

Has anyone heard an update regarding a CD release of the Concert John Barry version?

Were any of you at Carnegie Hall when The Lion in Winter score was performed live to film along with Ivan the Terrible?

 
 Posted:   May 19, 2023 - 5:02 PM   
 By:   David Ferstat   (Member)

The delightfully-named Basil Wrathbone, some time ago, wrote:

Talking of "King's English"... The line in the script "We're jungle creatures" (also used as a soundtrack cue title) is very memorable, but the film is set in the 1100's and the word "jungle" didn't exist until it was introduced to England as a variant of a Hindi word in the 18th century. The writer, James Goldman, apparently went to great lengths to research the accuracy of his latin texts, but perhaps wasn't quite so careful with his "King's English".

To quote Goldman, from his introduction to the play:

"This play, ... combining a meeting of the French and English Kings in 1183 with a Royal Court held at Windsor the following year into a Christmas Court that never was — is based on the available data."

And:

"The people in this play, their characters and passions, while consistent with the facts we have, are fictions."

Lastly:

"The play, finally, contains anachronisms in speech, thought, habit, custom and so on. Those the author is aware of — the way, for instance, Christmas is celebrated — are deliberate and not intended to outrage the historical aspects of the script."

The moral? It's not a "historical" film. It's a story about a (very) dysfunctional family, using a historical setting for effect.

 
 Posted:   May 21, 2023 - 11:31 AM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

Nicely done, David. I was going to make the same point, but the author's note is the best way to get it across.

It's a shame that kind of thing is so rarely done for the movies.

 
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