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 Posted:   May 4, 2001 - 4:03 AM   
 By:   Chris Kinsinger   (Member)

My very favorite movie musical (director's cut ONLY!).
AND, this is thread #1776 at the message board!

http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/biggrin.gif">

 
 Posted:   May 4, 2001 - 5:51 AM   
 By:   Ron Pulliam   (Member)

Really, Chris?


Why haven't you dropped a clue before now?

: )

I love this movie, too. But I love the musical itself. I directed this musical in Naples, Italy, in spring of 1976. My John Adams was performed by a British naval commander! He was brilliant.

For an orchestra, I had the Navy band attached to the Commander in Chief, U.S. Naval Forces Southern Europe. The band was augmented by three violinists, a cellist and something else from a local conservatory.

They were "awesome."

My set was crappy! But the costumes and actors were dazzling. To this day, I like to think of it as "1776" in Concert!

Until reading your -- and other -- comments, I had never encountered beings who felt the same way I do about this show. But, alas, while I recognize ever reference you guys make, they don't spring to mind as readily for me as they do for you.

: )

 
 
 Posted:   May 4, 2001 - 7:47 AM   
 By:   Beatty   (Member)

1801, old bean.

http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/Forum1/HTML/001776.html" TARGET=_blank>This is 1776.

------------------
http://www.geocities.com/Kyle_Beatty/scene.html" TARGET=_blank>How Silver Age Titles are born.

 
 
 Posted:   May 4, 2001 - 1:44 AM   
 By:   Chris Kinsinger   (Member)

Ron, Loran...glad to know there are other fans of this show here at the board!
My first experience with the musical was during my art school years. During the summer of '71, I was playing in the musical Cabaret. One night after the show was over, I heard a bunch of the guys singing "The Egg" in the dressing room. I loved the song, and had to know what it was from!
I saw two different stage versions of the show before the film was released. Because of the drastic cuts, I was terribly disappointed with the movie.
Back in 1990, Pioneer released the fully-restored director's cut on LaserDisc, and it is an absolute treasure! It's like seeing an entirely different version...finally done correctly!
Oh, Beatty...ya' had to go and ROON it for me! When I posted this morning, there were 1775 topics listed, so I naturally thought that I was coming in at 1776. Oh, well...

I wonder what's become of that red-headed tombstone...

 
 
 Posted:   May 4, 2001 - 1:48 AM   
 By:   Howard L   (Member)

Who're (Whore? http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/biggrin.gif">) you callin' red-headed?

 
 
 Posted:   May 4, 2001 - 1:53 AM   
 By:   Beatty   (Member)

Sorry! I guess the difference is that some posts have been deleted (probably by their authors.)

------------------
http://www.geocities.com/Kyle_Beatty/scene.html" TARGET=_blank>How Silver Age Titles are born.

 
 Posted:   May 4, 2001 - 1:55 AM   
 By:   Eric Paddon   (Member)

Not only should the expanded LD get a DVD release (with the wonderful Joe Capporicio/Peter Hunt commentary), but an expanded CD of the soundtrack (expanded from the LP that is) and a release of the original London cast from 1971 on CD is needed.

 
 
 Posted:   May 4, 2001 - 5:27 AM   
 By:   Chris Kinsinger   (Member)

Eric! I've never heard the London cast recording! I have the Broadway version. Why is the London recording superior?

Ron! The "1776" stage set is a pretty simple one, isn't it? What was wrong with the one that you had to work with?

Jefferson! YOU aren't red-headed? http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/biggrin.gif">

Both stage productions that I saw boasted truly fabulous costumes. I suppose that's one of the hallmarks of this particular show.

 
 Posted:   May 4, 2001 - 5:36 AM   
 By:   Eric Paddon   (Member)

I haven't heard the London cast either, Chris but I have read that as was the case with most London cast LP's in the 60s and 70s it contained more material than their Broadway counterparts (the London "Man Of La Mancha" to cite the best example did practically the entire play with dialogue). The London LP for instance contains Abigail's "Compliments" reprise which wasn't on the Broadway cast LP and I believe there's more dialogue too. And unlike the 1997 revival, this would be a recording that utilized the original orchestrations.

That reminds me, I still have to give you a VHS dub of the laser!

 
 
 Posted:   May 4, 2001 - 6:21 AM   
 By:   imagin8r   (Member)

absolutely!

aside from "singin in the rain", 1776 was the only musical i could ever sit through and enjoy no matter how many times it ran.

i'd love to play franklin someday. he had some of the best lines in the whole show.
"don't worry, john, the history books'll clean it up..."

wonderful!

 
 
 Posted:   May 4, 2001 - 6:30 AM   
 By:   Chris Kinsinger   (Member)

Well, I have always had a deep desire to play Dickinson!
In my view, Cool, Considerate Men is the most powerful song in the play, and I'd give (almost) anything to perform it on stage! And besides, Dickinson is not only a fellow Pennsylvanian, but he's one of the best-written villians EVER!

Oooooh, how I love to chew scenery!
(Except for yours, Ron... http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/biggrin.gif"> )

"That reminds me, I still have to give you a VHS dub of the laser!"

Eric! I TOLD you that I'd be delighted to PAY you for it!


[This message has been edited by Chris Kinsinger (edited 04 May 2001).]

 
 Posted:   May 4, 2001 - 6:57 AM   
 By:   Eric Paddon   (Member)

I think the two tape nature of the dubbing has held me back on this for awhile Chris, but now that I've got some time the next ten days I shall be getting to that starting tomorrow night. http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/smile.gif"> (You no longer have to wonder to yourself, "Good God, what in hell is he waiting for!" http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/smile.gif">) Tape 1 up to the Intermission, Tape 2 the second act etc.

My own "1776" history began at age 10 when in 1979 I saw the movie the first time on TV. Even in the cut version, it managed to be spread to two parts over two days on the local station. Therein followed my getting the Broadway LP and my puzzlement over why there were songs and verses there that weren't in the movie (was TV just always cutting it down, I thought?). Getting that LP fostered one bit of naievte in me, because since "1776" featured almost its entire Broadway cast right down to supporting roles, it made me take for granted the idea that a movie version of a musical should retain their stage casts. Of course we now know that "1776" is the unique exception when it comes to this.

I have seen three different stage productions over the years. 1988-Paper Mill Playhouse in NJ which suffered from very poor performances in Franklin and Jefferson. 1996-A wonderful northern New Jersey regional production in Morristown, not far from George Washington's Headquarters. 1997-The Broadway revival with Brent Spiner which was fine, though since I saw it performed in the small Roundabout Theater, the less full orchestrations were less appealing.

The discovery of the cut sequences and their inclusion on the LD release was one of the most thrilling experiences for me. After hearing the full versions of the songs from the Broadway cast LP and CD so many times, to finally *see* William Daniels singing the next two verses of "Piddle, Twiddle and Resolve" was pure magic. By the time we got to seeing "Cool Considerate Men" for the first time, I was in heaven. That's one expensive laser disc I never felt I was gypped on!

NP: Superman (RSNO rerecording)

 
 
 Posted:   May 5, 2001 - 2:37 AM   
 By:   Joe Caps   (Member)

Thanks so much, Eric - I was theproducer of that laserdisc and spent months finding the lost footage, soundtrack etc.
All we had to work with for the ectra footage was work print. I have been told that Sony has epnt time looking for all of the camera negative and that theyhave found it so it should look much better on the DVD.

 
 Posted:   May 5, 2001 - 7:19 AM   
 By:   Eric Paddon   (Member)

Joe, may I thank you again for what you did to bring out that LD, and also thank you for that fascinating interview with Peter Hunt (I wonder if he constantly gets mail from people mixing him up with the other Peter Hunt of James Bond films fame?). About the only frustrating thing in his otherwise fascinating remarks was his inability to remember why Betty Buckley was passed over for the film version, but you helped draw out a lot of fascinating information about both the stage and film productions that I love to go back and listen too quite often.

If the camera negative for the cut scenes has been found now, that's great to know! That just goes to show that if the right kind of search is undertaken, eventually all this fascinating missing footage for many films has to emerge someday somewhere.

 
 
 Posted:   May 5, 2001 - 7:28 AM   
 By:   Chris Kinsinger   (Member)

"...if the right kind of search is undertaken, eventually all this fascinating missing footage for many films has to emerge someday somewhere."

Unless, of course, it's been destroyed! Don't forget that Jack Warner ordered all of the excized footage from 1776 to be destroyed, but thankfully it was saved.

Mr. Caps, I bow to you, good sir!
When I learned that your precious LD was available, I slammed my hundred bucks on the table faster than you can say "Rum!" It's still the best money I ever spent on home vid! That disc set was spun more times than any other in my collection! It was my treasure! Sadly, when both of my LD players broke down, and I spent tons of money trying to have them repaired properly, my love affair with the LD was over. Then DVD arrived, and I reluctantly sold my collection at eBay. I look forward to having this masterpiece once more!

 
 
 Posted:   May 5, 2001 - 7:47 AM   
 By:   Howard L   (Member)

I too attended the Paper Mill revival in '88. Anyway, Mr. Caps, it is a shame that you've missed some rather intensive threads the past 2 or 3 years devoted to anything & everything about 1776 and all its incarnations. One of my favorite pieces concerned John Simon's review in New York Magazine re the Spiner revival. He couldn't praise the original cast enough and any praise for the revival was linked to how closely such-and-such adhered to the original.

Hey Eric--do you not think that Mr. Hunt knows full well why Ms. Danner and not Ms. Buckley was cast and he was just being diplomatic? Certainly he was far more diplomatic re Jack Warner than any of us has been!

 
 Posted:   May 5, 2001 - 1:56 AM   
 By:   Eric Paddon   (Member)

I don't think we can be too critical of Warner though in this instance. Remember, we at least have to thank Warner for having learned his lesson at long last about the importance of bringing the Broadway team on board for the movie, and even though the 40 minutes of cuts was painful for many years therafter, let's also not forget how fortunate we should be that at a time when Broadway shows were no longer getting made into movies, "1776" managed to sneak in under that wire. A lot of "1776's" contemporaries in Broadway were not so fortunate with "Promises, Promises" (the best musical from the year before) planned but never made for instance.

 
 
 Posted:   May 5, 2001 - 3:52 AM   
 By:   Chris Kinsinger   (Member)

Don't get me wrong, Eric. Mr. Warner produced a CLASSIC musical film...but then his second guessing very nearly destroyed it for all time!
I give the man a great deal of credit - even moreso after seeing the way the original film looked!
Just that magnificent mural under the opening credits alone is a masterwork. I'll never understand why anyone would have voted to cut that out, not to mention all the rest.
I'll never forget sitting in the theatre when "Mama, Look Sharp" began, and I realized that "Cool Men" had been snipped. My heart hit the floor, and I felt sick for the rest of the film.
I still believe that had he left it intact, he might have received a few awards for it!

 
 Posted:   May 5, 2001 - 5:12 AM   
 By:   Ron Pulliam   (Member)

quote:
Originally posted by Eric Paddon:
let's also not forget how fortunate we should be that at a time when Broadway shows were no longer getting made into movies, "1776" managed to sneak in under that wire. A lot of "1776's" contemporaries in Broadway were not so fortunate with "Promises, Promises" (the best musical from the year before) planned but never made for instance.

As I recall, 20th Century-Fox bought the film rights to this Burt Bacharach musical. Was it based on "The Apartment" or some other film from the early 60s?

Anyway, it may have been the failure of Bacharach's "Lost Horizon" -- not to mention the success of the totally overhauled "Cabaret" -- that spelled the doom of that film. "Man of La Mancha" going bust as film didn't help, either (although I love Rosethal's treatment of the score!).

 
 Posted:   May 5, 2001 - 5:23 AM   
 By:   Eric Paddon   (Member)

Yes, it's based on "The Apartment" and I think it was United Artists who had the rights since they put out the cast album (Rykodisc finally released it on CD last year). Because it has a very distinctive late-60s sound and style in its score and choreography, no one has ever considered it revivable in today's Broadway.

 
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