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Okay, call me behind the times, call me irresponsible, or call me bwana, but I just got the two new Universal France Sarde collections - one for director Georges Lautner, and one for director Robin Davis.
I love Phillippe Sarde and have for years and years. I find him a brilliant melodist with a musically wide range. So, I was rather taken aback to hear the music from Marshall Brickman's film Lovesick in a Georges Lautner compilation. I also heard the main theme from Pirates in the same collection.
Then, in the Robin Davis collection I got to hear The Manhattan Project. I'm not talking about close calls here - I'm talking about the exact same music. Did Mr. Brickman know he was getting a score that had already been used or did that score come first and then get used again for Mr. Davis. Did Polanski know Pirates had been used or, conversely, did Lautner know?
Are there more examples of this in Sarde's work? I must say I found it very odd.
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Posted: |
Jul 22, 2011 - 11:19 PM
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By: |
GoblinScore
(Member)
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There are......lots, Bwana.
Happy hunting, it's one of the best,most kept secrets
in Francais - Stravinsky pops up in the bacchanalia
during LORD OF THE FLIES as well.
The main theme for GHOST STORY is heard in an older
French film whose name escapes me at the moment, but
the piano/soprano vocal is on the most excellent,must have
Univ. France disc containing LE TRAIN. I love his work too,
and don't mind the occasional visitations from past works
that much - am surprised it doesn't come up more often.
Que sera?
While we're at it, would someone PLEASE release the whole
thing, probably 20 odd minutes, of L' ETOILE DU NORD? PLEASE!!!
The aforementioned 'TRAIN' disc has three cues, but that's it, and
it has the subdued take of the main theme for bandoneon, not the
extremely infectious and spirited main title.
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Posted: |
Jul 22, 2011 - 11:34 PM
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By: |
Bond1965
(Member)
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Okay, call me behind the times, call me irresponsible, or call me bwana, but I just got the two new Universal France Sarde collections - one for director Georges Lautner, and one for director Robin Davis.
I love Phillippe Sarde and have for years and years. I find him a brilliant melodist with a musically wide range. So, I was rather taken aback to hear the music from Marshall Brickman's film Lovesick in a Georges Lautner compilation. I also heard the main theme from Pirates in the same collection.
Then, in the Robin Davis collection I got to hear The Manhattan Project. I'm not talking about close calls here - I'm talking about the exact same music. Did Mr. Brickman know he was getting a score that had already been used or did that score come first and then get used again for Mr. Davis. Did Polanski know Pirates had been used or, conversely, did Lautner know?
Are there more examples of this in Sarde's work? I must say I found it very odd.
Seriously Bruce, you are late to this party. I love Sarde but his "original" output in the last 20 plus years has been minimal.
I don't know how many times he's reused LE CHOC or ENNEMIS INTIMES and even those may not be the first uses of those themes.
I guess that is why, more & more, I turn to LES CHOCES DE LA VIE as my favorite score. It was his first.
James
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Okay, call me behind the times, call me irresponsible, or call me bwana, but I just got the two new Universal France Sarde collections - one for director Georges Lautner, and one for director Robin Davis.
I love Phillippe Sarde and have for years and years. I find him a brilliant melodist with a musically wide range. So, I was rather taken aback to hear the music from Marshall Brickman's film Lovesick in a Georges Lautner compilation. I also heard the main theme from Pirates in the same collection.
Then, in the Robin Davis collection I got to hear The Manhattan Project. I'm not talking about close calls here - I'm talking about the exact same music. Did Mr. Brickman know he was getting a score that had already been used or did that score come first and then get used again for Mr. Davis. Did Polanski know Pirates had been used or, conversely, did Lautner know?
Are there more examples of this in Sarde's work? I must say I found it very odd.
Seriously Bruce, you are late to this party. I love Sarde but his "original" output in the last 20 plus years has been minimal.
I don't know how many times he's reused LE CHOC or ENNEMIS INTIMES and even those may not be the first uses of those themes.
I guess that is why, more & more, I turn to LES CHOCES DE LA VIE as my favorite score. It was his first.
James
I'm always late to the party - I hate that. 
I'm just wondering if the filmmakers know they're getting scores that have been used. I love Manhattan Project - and it's unnerving to know that music wasn't original to that film - unless the Robin Davis came after - but how must Robin Davis feel - I mean, that's the point. It's a good thing none of these scores were ever nominated.
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The main theme for GHOST STORY is heard in an older
French film whose name escapes me at the moment, but
the piano/soprano vocal is on the most excellent,must have
Univ. France disc containing LE TRAIN.
The Ghost Story theme comes from Le Chat.
Unfortunately, Philippe Sarde has a tendency to repeat himself very much as Jimbo Horner. On the other hand, and contrary to Jimbo, Philippe Sarde doesn't deny the re-use of music.
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Posted: |
Jul 23, 2011 - 4:38 AM
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By: |
Stephan
(Member)
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I love Phillippe Sarde and have for years and years. I find him a brilliant melodist with a musically wide range. So, I was rather taken aback to hear the music from Marshall Brickman's film Lovesick in a Georges Lautner compilation. I also heard the main theme from Pirates in the same collection.
Well... if you noticed the fact that Sarde has re-used "some" of his themes in other scores only a few days ago, you can call yourself hardly a Sarde-lover who "has adored his music for years and years" 
Thème principal inédit de "Diaboliquement votre" -> Thème principal de "Deux hommes dans la ville"
Motif atonal de 4 notes de l'accident des "Choses de la vie" -> Motif atonal de 4 notes dans la piste "Apparitions" du "Locataire"
Thème principal de "Sortie de secours" -> Réutilisation dans "L'Ami de Vincent" (la scène sur le quai de la gare)
Piste "Mademoiselle S." de "Sortie de Secours" -> Piste "Trois Jours à Paris" dans "Les soeurs Fâchées"
La chanson "L'enfance est un rubis" de "La Liberté en Croupe" -> piste "L'epopée" de "Le choc"
La chanson "Laurence" de "La liberté en croupe" -> Générique et thème principal de "Tess"
Le thème principal d'"Hellé" -> réutilisation dans "Les Corps Célestes" et "Beau père"
Thème principal de "Le Chat" -> Thème principal de "Ghost story"
Thème "Le cirque" extrait de "Le Chat" (à peine entendu dans le film, il figure sur le EP 4 titres d'époque) -> Générique de "Un sac de billes"
Un des thèmes des "Corps Célestes" -> thème pour piano joué par Dewaere dans "Beau-Père"
Thème du bombardement de "Le Train" -> Thème de l'agression des voisins pendant la nuit dans "Le locataire" et musique de "Souvenirs d'en France"
Thème principal de "Le fils" -> Thème principal de "K"
Thème principal de "Le droit d'aimer" -> Thème principal de "Lovesick"
Générique de "Liza" -> quasiment le même générique (à la note près !) dans "La race des seigneurs"
Thème de bal musette dans "La veuve Couderc" -> réutilisation en tant que musique de source lors d'une fête foraine dans "Garçon !" (à vérifier)
Thème de foxtrot dans "La veuve Couderc" (non utilisé dans le film) -> réutilisation en tant que musique de source lors d'une fête foraine dans "L'Horloger de St Paul"
Thème de "Martini Dry" de "La valise" -> première partie du thème de "Lucie Aubrac" (arrangement totalement différent) et thème de "Pas de problème"
Thème "Tijuana haute" de "La valise" -> entendu lors d'une scène d'accident dans le film "On aura tout vu".
Le générique de "Touche pas à la femme blanche" utilise l'hymne irlandais "Gary Owen" précédemment utilisé par Max Steiner dans "They Died with Their Boots On"
Générique de "Lancelot du Lac" -> Thème secondaire du générique de "Le choc" et piste "Les noces de Caylus" dans "Le bossu"
Valse pour sax soprano et quatuor dans ""L'Horloger de St Paul" lors de la visite de Noiret à la nourrice de son fils -> variations sur le même thème dans "L.627" (scène du retour à Lyon)
Thème "Cher vieux" de "7 morts sur ordonnance" -> Thème "Avant guerre" de "Le petit garçon" (version plus symphonique)
Thème de "La Confession d'un Enfant du Siècle" (générique fin) -> Thème principal du "Taxi mauve"
Générique de "La cage" -> Réutilisation dans "La tribu"
Thème joué pizzicato dans "Le Locataire" -> Réutilisation dans "Il faut tuer Birgit Haas"
Thème unique de "Marie-Poupée" -> thème à la mandoline dans "Violette et François"
Thème de "Un Sac de Billes" -> Réutilisation dans un thème secondaire de "Ennemis intimes"
Thème de valse dans "Le Juge Fayard dit le shérif" -> Légèrement transformé en tant que thème principal de "L'adolescente"
La chanson "Paris jadis" du film "Des enfants gâtés" - > source music dans une scène du film "le crabe-tambour" (dans un bistrot).
Thème principal de "La nuit ensoleillée" -> Thème principal de "Joyeuses Pâques"
Thème principal de "On aura tout vu" (générique fin notamment) -> Thème principal de "Mort d'un pourri"
La fanfare finale de "Le Taxi Mauve" utilise l'air irlandais "The Foggy dew" de même que les pistes "Candor" et "Music Box" de "Music Box" (avec une orchestration radicalement différente)
Thème "Le temps qui passe" dans "Une histoire simple" -> Réutilisation dans "Nelly et Monsieur Arnaud"
Chanson de Jeanne Moreau et d'Yves Duteil dans "L'adolescence" -> Réutilisation sous forme instrumentale dans "La vieille qui marchait dans la mer"
Quasi intégralité du score "L'adolescente" -> Réutilisation quasiment telle quelle dans "Les Égarés" (sur CD, la musique réellement entendu dans le film étant bien plus courte)
Thème romantique dans "L'Adolescente" -> Love thème de "Ghost Story"
Thème de "L'adolescente" -> réutilisation dans "L'été prochain"
Thème de "Pas de problème !" -> Réutilisation dans "Le fils préféré"
Thème principal de "La Clé sur la Porte" -> thème principal de "Every Time We Say Goodbye" et sur la piste "Quand on aime il faut partir" de "Pour Sacha"
Thème secondaire de "Violette et François" (inédit sur CD et du à Hubert Rostaing) -> Générique de "L'invité Surprise"
Thème du "Toubib" -> réutilisation dans "Hiver 54, l'abbé Pierre" (en version "jazz-musette")
Thème de "Chère inconnue" -> Réutilisation dans "J'embrasse pas" (à vérifier)
Thème principal de "Attention, une femme peut en cacher une autre" -> Thème secondaire de "Pirates" (qui lui-même s'inspire plus qu'ouvertement de la marche de l'opéra "L'amour des trois oranges" de Prokofiev)
Thème de "Une jeunesse", "La Garce" et "Je suis vivante et je vous aime" -> Thème du "Petit garçon" (qui offre des parentés avec les thèmes du "Lieu du Crime" et du "Petit criminel", chaque fois réarrangés et réorchestrés)
Thème principal de "Allons z'enfants" -> Thème principal de "Devil in the Flesh" et du téléfilm "Le Rouge et le Noir"
Thème des "Ailes de La colombe" -> réutilisation dans "La pirate"
Thème romantique de "Le Guignolo" -> Réutilisation dans "Mon beau-frère a tué ma soeur"
Thème secondaire de "Est-ce bien raisonnable ?" (partition jazz) -> Réutilisation dans "L'Histoire de Piera" et "La pirate" (orchestration classique radicalement différente)
Thème principal de "Beau-père" -> Réutilisation dans "Poisson-lune" (à vérifier)
Le passage à l'orgue de "Ghost Story" (début de la piste titre) -> Le passage à l'orgue de "La Maison Assassinée"
Piste "La Folie" de "Le Choc" -> Piste "Ithaca" de "The Manhattan Project"
Thème mélancolique de "Premiers désirs" -> Thème principal de "Cours privé" (orchestré pour guitare électrique)
Thèmes de "Premiers désirs" -> Thèmes de "La Maison De Jade" et "Je m'appelle Elisabeth"
Piste "En Bateau" de "Premiers Désirs" -> Piste "Un Marché dans le Sud" de "Max et Jérémie"
Fanfare et thème militaire de "Allons z'enfants" -> Réutilisation dans le thème de la parade militaire de "Fort Saganne"
2 thèmes de "Mon beau frère a tué ma soeur" -> Réutilisation dans "Faux et Usage de Faux"
Thèmes de "Garçon !" -> Réutilisation avec variations différentes dans "Les Sœurs fâchées"
Thème principal de "Ennemis intimes" -> reprise dans le générique de fin et "Search for Eve" de "Eve of Destruction"
Thème de "Ça n'arrive qu'à Moi" -> réutilisation dans "Qui c'est ce garçon ?" (à vérifier)
Quasi intégralité du score "Harem" -> musique de "Colette - une femme libre"
Thème principal pour "Les deux crocodiles" -> réutilise à l'identique la chanson principale de "Que les gros salaires lèvent le doigt !"
Thème principal de "Rendez vous" -> réutilisation au piano dans "Dans le Regard d'Alice" sur "Alice et Martin"
Le thème principal de "L'ours" fait une réutilisation de la pièce "Barcarolle" (extraite des "Saisons" - recueil pour piano) de Tchaikowsky
Troisième tableau de "Mangeclous" -> réutilisation dans le générique de "Le Bossu"
Thème de "L'Amour" dans le téléfilm "L'argent" -> seconde partie du thème de "Lucie Aubrac"
Thème de "La fille des Collines", "Poisson Lune" et "L'étrangère" -> thème de la piste "Une âme aussi Fière que la vôtre" de "La Princesse de Montpensier"
Piste "La passion selon Eloise" de "La Fille de d'Artagnan" -> Thème principal d'"Un Frère"
Mouvement 6 de "Les Voleurs" -> réutilisation à l'identique sur la piste ""L'amour secret" de "Le Mystère de la Chambre Jaune"
Thèmes de "K" ->réutilisation sur "Entre chiens et loups"
That's not a complete list...
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That's some list. I have a LOT of Sarde albums, but frankly other than Garcon, which I knew had been reused completely, I hadn't realized about the others, although hearing these two compilations are the first time I've heard any music from those Lautner and Davis films.
It sounds like M. Sarde writes a memorable theme and then just recycles it to fit.
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Posted: |
Jul 23, 2011 - 1:51 PM
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By: |
quiller007
(Member)
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Okay, call me behind the times, call me irresponsible, or call me bwana, Are there more examples of this in Sarde's work? I must say I found it very odd.
Hey, Bwana. All I know is what I like. Most of the Sarde scores I have
are his work from the 70's and 80's. I don't think I have anything by him
other than those two decades. I'm no expert, but I haven't noticed
where he re-used any material from one score to the next, let alone
an entire score. That said, my favorite Sarde scores are:
Le Train, Coup De Torchon, Choice of Arms, Tess, Barocco, Ghost Story,
Le Pirate (not to be confused with Polanski's PIRATES), and several
French crime dramas, which the names escape me at the moment.
Den
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But the question still is do directors like Marshall Brickman know they are getting recycled material? More importantly, do the studios for whom Sarde wrote the music originally and for which they paid him, know he's just recycling this music. In other words, shouldn't the original film and studio receive credit or money or something? How does the publishing work?
It doesn't stop me from being the huge Sarde fan that I am, but it's just plain odd to me.
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Posted: |
Jul 23, 2011 - 6:37 PM
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By: |
dan the man
(Member)
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Very interesting, The bear, huh, ok, i thought when i heard that melody it sounded like something i heard before somewhere, ok, cross that one off the list, my now i have 1 million 126 thousand original pieces of music from films, which folks does not take much arithmitic to find out when you figure there has been hundreds of thousands of films, TV shows in the world since say 1930, and with this truth, say you averge 3 pieces of music per movie so there you have about a million.I will explain further in some thread in the future, by the way to be topical just now i pop in on the ending of OH God no 2- 1980- beautiful end theme piece, it was on one of the HBO stations.
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FYI,
While not the soundtracking recording, BSX RECORDS has just released a new recording of theme from GHOST STORY produced and arranged by Joohyun Park featuring Katie Campbell.
http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/ghost-story-theme-from-motion/id447362046
I hope you enjoy it.
As for reusing theme from one film to another, just about every composer I can think of has recycled music to one degree or another through their career..
I remember hearing something from Elmer Bernstein's score "The Eternal Sea" being reused almost note for note in ZULU DAWN...
Waste not, want not....
Ford A. Thaxton
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