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 Posted:   Jan 21, 2014 - 7:19 AM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

I also have to add that Doug's comments are just bizare.

On the one hand he says, "Perhaps Shaun saw a different movie than what we worked with."

After having said he dealt with the score as recorded vs. how it was dialed in & out in the film.


Of course Shaun saw a different film. Exactly where could Shaun or anybody else have seen a film with the score as originally recorded by J.N.H.? Then to top it off calls Shaun's comments factually incorrect and with ficticious titles; exactly how was Shaun going to ever have the facts straight, short of contacting J.N.H. and the film's editor, had no CD release been made? Where was he going to get correct track titles short of writing the studio and hoping they'll share cue sheet information ('cause they're so willing to do to that with random fans) -- he did the best he could, or anybody could have done, prior to an official release and even after. And it's not like Intrada doesn't have a history of combining tracks and even micro edits to combine tracks.

Shaun's no more psychic than I am, yet he's taken to task for not having in-depth information. I don't see anything in the CD announcement from the label that says it's the score as originally written/recorded.


Sometimes people look far too much into everybody's post. A simple correction was all that was needed.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2014 - 7:27 AM   
 By:   jacky   (Member)

Sigh! We cannot just be happy anymore and be thankfull that these score recordings still find their way to the factory cd´s medium. (Internet has destroyed more than half of the music business!) One wants the tracks seperate, the other prefer them in one longer track and follows the choice of the composer, nobody is ever 100% satisfied, i respect the choice of Intrada Thanks Intrada for giving us this Holy Grail and also taken from Digital sources, what more do we collector´s want!!

 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2014 - 8:03 AM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)

Geez, I mean, don't lose your minds about it. I'm not happy about it because I had my own version of the album in my head for 20+ years and Intrada's official release is a letdown (for me) in that regard. I don't think they're horrible people or anything.

Some of the cue titles were published on that USC library site:

http://www.usc.edu/libraries/finding_aids/records/finding_aid.php?fa=0075

But I had my titles made up long ago, so that's how I remember them.

Also, I know that cues can be dialed in and out of the film. I was talking about the cues as they were recorded vs. how they are presented on Intrada's disc.

 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2014 - 9:10 AM   
 By:   DeputyRiley   (Member)

HUGE disappointment from a gigantic fan of this score.

You just echoed my sentiments for the Matrix Reloaded set from last year.

Who in Goldsmith's name decided making suites of seperate cues was a good idea?

STOP THAT, PEOPLE.


I'm glad you pointed this out. While it doesn't deflect any of the excitement or appreciation for Falling Down, I do find this trend irritating also. An example that comes to mind is Patriot Games -- gorgeous, haunting cues that could be amazing on their own but inexplicably are paired with other cues into a suite so that the tone and moment of each track is all over the place and jarring. There have been other scores like that recently that join cues for suite tracks, although I can't think of them off the top of my head. Zimmer's Black Rain is another. Some scores need this combining of short cues (Silvestri's A-Team is near unlistenable without combining cues due the short duration of each track as originally recorded) but not that many. It's just a personal preference kind of thing.

On the other hand, some cues substantially increase in power and effect when paired up with others for a suite, so it could easily go both ways. The bottom line is that the music is released, and how it is presented is not the biggest deal in the world.

Having said that, very stoked about Falling Down, thanks for the release!

 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2014 - 9:11 AM   
 By:   DeputyRiley   (Member)

dp

 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2014 - 9:33 AM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)

HUGE disappointment from a gigantic fan of this score.

You just echoed my sentiments for the Matrix Reloaded set from last year.

Who in Goldsmith's name decided making suites of seperate cues was a good idea?

STOP THAT, PEOPLE.


I'm glad you pointed this out. While it doesn't deflect any of the excitement or appreciation for Falling Down, I do find this trend irritating also. An example that comes to mind is Patriot Games -- gorgeous, haunting cues that could be amazing on their own but inexplicably are paired with other cues into a suite so that the tone and moment of each track is all over the place and jarring. There have been other scores like that recently that join cues for suite tracks, although I can't think of them off the top of my head. Zimmer's Black Rain is another. Some scores need this combining of short cues (Silvestri's A-Team is near unlistenable without combining cues due the short duration of each track as originally recorded) but not that many. A minor irritation in appreciating and celebrating these phenomenal score releases, but an irritation nonetheless.

Having said that, very stoked about Falling Down, thanks for the release!


Patriot Games is an example of another problem. I would hope that TPTB would allow you to recreate the album sequence, but Patriot Games is one where even though there was plenty of room to throw on the album tracks as-is (or just have them in their own index point), they stick them at the beginning or the end of a suite. But I/we have complained about that before.

 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2014 - 9:39 AM   
 By:   DeputyRiley   (Member)

And thank you, Intrada, for consistently posting actual descriptions of the music, the scoring process, the sound and tone of the score. I enjoyed listening to the samples as well of course, but I think it's great that you go into some detail about the music itself to help round out an understanding of the score for a potential consumer. Buysoundtrax could learn a thing or two about this practice!

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2014 - 9:52 AM   
 By:   jfallon   (Member)

Wow those samples sound prestine... Great release. I miss this old Howard.

 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2014 - 9:54 AM   
 By:   Lukas Kendall   (Member)


There must be some sort of healthy middle ground that we are not finding between slavish cheerleading and dogmatic attacks...

Having done several hundred of these albums, I always welcomed constructive feedback. On the rare occasion there were multiple impassioned complaints, it seemed to be a case not of 17 people, but one person posting about the same stupid thing 17 times.

I always tried to present the music as people would want it, but sorry, I'm not going to make a CD with 82 track IDs.

lk

 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2014 - 10:00 AM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)


I always tried to present the music as people would want it, but sorry, I'm not going to make a CD with 82 track IDs.

lk


I agree. I wouldn't want to suffer through 82 tracks of Wyatt Earp. But this case in particular would not have been that many more tracks.

 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2014 - 10:16 AM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)

I have the old release of this score.
I think if I was editing every bit of worthwhile music into a single track, it would end up less than five minutes long.

 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2014 - 10:30 AM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

I always tried to present the music as people would want it, but sorry, I'm not going to make a CD with 82 track IDs.

I've never disliked a FSM album presentation, Lukas.

Here is where I stand, an essay of detail in case someone who makes these decisions is reading:

Back in 2004 or so, my buddy Dave had his hands on some *cough* promos and would play them in his car when we were driving around. Matrix Reloaded got a lot of play, especially since Dave was a trombonist and could explain to me how some of Don Davis's music worked. We replayed the last couple of cues because, damn, they're amazing in terms of pure orchestration. They were also cut into separate, individual cues - I remember "Neo Miraculous" in specific, being on that list.

And In the case of Matrix Reloaded, had I noticed the climactic cues were going to be assembled into a thirteen minute suite on the LaLaLand set, I may have skipped buying the album altogether. Simply put: If I have to fast-forward through five, seven, ten minutes of someone else's absurd concept of "musical flow" to hear what I want, guess what album isn't going to get played? Or even purchased?

(Or to put it more eloquently - I trust John Williams to arrange John Williams suites but don't put much faith in Ben Burtt's ear to do the same.)

Admittedly, I'm just a consumer and have no intrinsic experience with album assembly and music editing but, Jesus - the Battle Of Hoth cue on the two-disc ESB set is absurd. I own that set and never play it since the Arista set gives me what I want within a few clicks of my CD player.

Thats just me though. Your mileage may vary.

 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2014 - 10:37 AM   
 By:   Jason LeBlanc   (Member)

Of course, the best of both worlds is to assemble the music the way you want, with cues overlapping... but still put each cue as a separate track. So then the musical flow is identical to the "cues overlapping" methodology, while still giving the option for people to skip right to the start of the cue they want.

This is rarely done, for some reason In fact, the only film score CDs I can think of that do this are the 1999 Star Trek TMP release, the Chapter III version of Tomorrow Never Dies, and the Lord of the Rings Complete Recordings. (Plus the final 2 tracks of the Tintin OST, and a few tracks in the Star Trek 09 Deluxe Edition)

 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2014 - 10:48 AM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

Well, having said all that, I hope some member who gets the CD can tell us what the experience of the score as recorded for film, is like vs. hearing it in the film dialed in & out.

I'm wondering how much the new material adds to the film. I loved the film, but not so much all the score. The only score I remember strikiing me was the confrontation music at the end and sad trumpet climax.


And, on a related note, I'd still like to know of Graeme Revell did any score before the switch in composers.

 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2014 - 10:48 AM   
 By:   AlexCope   (Member)

(Or to put it more eloquently - I trust John Williams to arrange John Williams suites but don't put much faith in Ben Burtt's ear to do the same.)

Nicely put.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2014 - 12:52 PM   
 By:   TerraEpon   (Member)

Well, I think EVERYTHING should be made into suites, even far more radical than this! The closer it gets to the parameters of classical music (or other music written for its own purpose) and the further it gets from the movie, the better!

But that's just me, of course.


But separating the music into tracks doesn't make it further "from the parameters of classical music".
Giving a good classical example, there's no AURAL difference between a recording of Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini separated into 23 tracks as there is if it's only given 1 track.

 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2014 - 1:46 PM   
 By:   The Mutant   (Member)

Just got my shipping notice. This excites me.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2014 - 2:25 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Well, I think EVERYTHING should be made into suites, even far more radical than this! The closer it gets to the parameters of classical music (or other music written for its own purpose) and the further it gets from the movie, the better!

But that's just me, of course.


But separating the music into tracks doesn't make it further "from the parameters of classical music".
Giving a good classical example, there's no AURAL difference between a recording of Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini separated into 23 tracks as there is if it's only given 1 track.


I know. I was just 'soap boxing' a bit about the concept of suites and film music in general.

I really enjoy the succinct score presentation on the ol' bootleg of FALLING DOWN, but I have a principle of always throwing boots in the trash and replacing them with legit releases once they surface. But I guess I can rearrange the Intrada to the old program when I transfer it to iTunes.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2014 - 2:36 PM   
 By:   richuk   (Member)

So you're not at all interested in hearing *any* additional music that might take your fancy from this new set?

It's more the lower key cues I'm looking forward to - the scene where Douglas watches the home video near the end, and what I believe is the final shot of the film, going inside the house.

But also, having the '110 Freeway' cue in pristine quality will also be awesome smile

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 21, 2014 - 2:41 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Sure, there could be a couple of extra nice cues there (haven't seen the film in ages) that could fit into the program without the listening experience losing any of its flow. We'll see.

 
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