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 Posted:   Sep 9, 2010 - 12:39 PM   
 By:   Peter Greenhill   (Member)

I'm obviously really looking forward to hearing Intrada's release of John Barry's 'The Deep' currently winging it's way across the Atlantic. Whilst I'm waiting, I'm indulging in a little speculation regarding John Barry' s score for Roland Joffe's 1998 'Goodbye Lover' which at a late stage was replaced by a new score composed by John Ottman.

Barry did record a full score and it does exist. Wayne Kramer reported on his Facebook page a while ago that he had listened to it. Ottman's score was released on CD by Milan. The film was a Warner production.

Is there any chance that Barry's score could be released ?. Or does the fact that Ottman's music has been released make it even more difficult.

Thanks for any info/opinions.

 
 Posted:   Sep 10, 2010 - 4:14 AM   
 By:   Stephen Woolston   (Member)

I don't know if it's possible but if it is, it's gotta be a target.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 10, 2010 - 4:19 AM   
 By:   Thomas   (Member)

Didn't some themes from this end up somewhere else? I can't remember where though... or maybe not. Does anyone know why his score was rejected?

 
 Posted:   Sep 10, 2010 - 4:27 AM   
 By:   The Cat   (Member)

The problem is a lack of real motivation from anzone who could do anything in this matter. Unlike many of the "Barry rejections", this one actually exists and had been recorded.

The problem was that this was meant to be a dark comedy and the score didn't exactly support this notion. It was heavy and smokey - which is a good thing if you're looking for something like an even gloomier "Body Heat", but it just wasn't what the filmmakers wanted.

This score could only be released if there was a STRONG demand for this, but I can safely say this is not the case at this moment.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 10, 2010 - 11:38 PM   
 By:   JADSTERSDAD   (Member)

The problem is a lack of real motivation from anzone who could do anything in this matter. Unlike many of the "Barry rejections", this one actually exists and had been recorded.

The problem was that this was meant to be a dark comedy and the score didn't exactly support this notion. It was heavy and smokey - which is a good thing if you're looking for something like an even gloomier "Body Heat", but it just wasn't what the filmmakers wanted.

This score could only be released if there was a STRONG demand for this, but I can safely say this is not the case at this moment.


Good point, but what about 'Mike's Murder'? Wasn't that a similar case? I can't imagine that being strongly demanded.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 11, 2010 - 12:36 AM   
 By:   quiller007   (Member)


This score could only be released if there was a STRONG demand for this, but I can safely say this is not the case at this moment.


Why? I seem to recall a little "rejected score" item called THE CHINA SYNDROME
that sold out in one day. Nobody had ever heard it as I recall. Not a lot of people
where even aware that Michael Small had composed a score. I certainly didn't.
Was there a lot of demand for it over the years? Besides, we're talkin' Barry here.
And if it sounds even remotely like BODY HEAT, like you say, then I'd think there would
be a good chance of something like this being a decent seller.

Den

 
 Posted:   Sep 11, 2010 - 2:16 AM   
 By:   The Cat   (Member)

Well, Small's score was a thing of myth, a legendary rejection - the people who wanted to release it knew it existed and put it out when they had the chance. Same with Mike's Murder - if you know it exists, you have a better chance of find it.

Goodbye Lover is a different league. It's a lesser known, kinda failed picture and just a couple of years ago I could even find proof that this thing existed. The problem with John Barry's rejected scores is that they a) never existed b) only consisted of some demos which naturally are not releasable. Goodbye Lover is a welcome exception to misconceptions.

However, in order to have a release, it's important that the labels knew it existed, because obviously they are the ones who could get to start the ball running with this one. With no interest by the composer or the studios, it's obvious that only a third party can launch a project like this.

If you're a fan of John Barry, this release is naturally a must. But if you're a label with a budget to keep and priorities, it's easy to say why Goodbye Lover may fall off the radar - or not even get on it.

 
 Posted:   Sep 11, 2010 - 3:59 AM   
 By:   Stephen Woolston   (Member)

Someone once told me the reason why The Deep would never come out expanded is because it's just not big enough or important enough. ("After all, a label's gotta make money, you know.") My reply: "And Earth Versus The Spider is?"

We're living in an age where all kinds of obscure stuff from really niche composers gets considered commercially viable. So I don't see why a rejected score by one of the big four composers wouldn't be.

I don't see why Barry's Goodbye Lover would be any less viable than Bernstein's Last Man Standing or his The Scarlet Letter either.

I agree this is an unlikely release but not because there's no market for rejected scores or because John Barry is too obscure. Last I looked, John Barry isn't quite the huge seller he used to be, but he's not exactly a nobody in soundtracks either. I think there's a lot more people out there to buy this than a lot of other stuff I see coming out.

The key thing is for a producer to want to do it. And be able to . And those are the reasons why it probably won't happen. Not because there's no market for it.

I'm sure a 1,200 edition of this would sell out quickly enough.

Before anyone objects with, "but High Road To China didn't sell out", well, High Road To China had already been released on CD three times before, two of which were unlimited. As for Star Crash, well, yes, that one surprised me but again, remember it also had already been out on CD unlimited before.

Cheers

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 11, 2010 - 12:53 PM   
 By:   Peter Greenhill   (Member)

The key issue here IMO is that this music has only been heard by a handful of people, apart from a theme that may be on 'Eternal Echoes', probably with a very different orchestration. It has never been heard in a film or on previous LP/CD releases.

To most of us this would be a new John Barry score, something most of his fans have given up hoping for.

It's very unlikely that Barry will score another movie. frown

If 'Goodbye Lover' was released it would be one final John Barry score. One for his fans around the world. smile

You never can tell, but I suspect that a 1500 run would sell out very quickly.

Doesn't FSM have a relationship with Warner?.

Lukas, please could you have a look at this one?.

Thanks

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 11, 2010 - 5:27 PM   
 By:   scrapsly   (Member)

The key issue here IMO is that this music has only been heard by a handful of people, apart from a theme that may be on 'Eternal Echoes', probably with a very different orchestration. It has never been heard in a film or on previous LP/CD releases.

To most of us this would be a new John Barry score, something most of his fans have given up hoping for.

It's very unlikely that Barry will score another movie. If 'Goodbye Lover' was released it would be one final John Barry score. One for his fans around the world.

You never can tell, but I suspect that a 1500 run would sell out very quickly.

Doesn't FSM have a relationship with Warner?.

Lukas, please could you have a look at this one?.

Thanks


I have to second this..........Someone please take a look and see if it can happen.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 12, 2010 - 12:34 PM   
 By:   Peter Greenhill   (Member)

deleted

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 13, 2010 - 8:10 AM   
 By:   JADSTERSDAD   (Member)

This might sound naive, but if it's definitely known that the score exists then 'where' is it? Presumabely we're talking about the masters here. Surely someone would stump up for this one.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 13, 2010 - 12:11 PM   
 By:   Peter Greenhill   (Member)

This might sound naive, but if it's definitely known that the score exists then 'where' is it? Presumabely we're talking about the masters here. Surely someone would stump up for this one.
--------------
You'd think so, if it's possible. Maybe there is a problem such as Warners not wanting the replaced score released or something in the paperwork that makes it difficult.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 19, 2010 - 6:29 AM   
 By:   JADSTERSDAD   (Member)

This might sound naive, but if it's definitely known that the score exists then 'where' is it? Presumabely we're talking about the masters here. Surely someone would stump up for this one.

Cat? Can you help here? By hinting at least what manner of proof you discovered?

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 1, 2010 - 2:03 PM   
 By:   Peter Greenhill   (Member)

Apparently FSM had a poll at some point asking which unreleased Barry score would you like to see issued on CD and Goodbye Lover got just 11 votes (0.2%).

 
 Posted:   Oct 2, 2010 - 12:51 AM   
 By:   The Cat   (Member)

Cat? Can you help here? By hinting at least what manner of proof you discovered?

Well, what the heck can I do apart from saying it exists? Labels show no interest in the score, so that's exactly where my power stops.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 2, 2010 - 1:46 AM   
 By:   JamesSouthall   (Member)

Somebody (Wayne Kramer, I think) once said that theme from this ended up in Enigma.

I'm sure that a thousand copies of this would sell out quickly. Doug Fake and Robert Townson are definitely Barry fans, I believe Lukas Kendall is, maybe MV Gerhard is as well. Maybe they just don't know this exists. Somebody could email them and tell them it does - somewhere!

 
 Posted:   Oct 2, 2010 - 2:15 AM   
 By:   The Cat   (Member)

I'm sorry to say that I had the exact opposite reaction on this subject matter. But if there's any label out there who wants to release this, I'm happy to assisst.

 
 Posted:   Oct 2, 2010 - 2:44 AM   
 By:   MusicMad   (Member)

A release of this - or any other unreleased works by Mr. Barry - would be most welcome.

But I don't long for such releases - there are more than enough scores / albums available (in my collection) to keep me happy and then I can smile and happily spend my money when a surprise occurs ... such as the recent The Deep.

Looking at what has happened re: OST releases since the deaths of Messrs. Bernstein and Goldsmith (and it's probably true of others) I imagine some of these works will appear in due course ...

 
 Posted:   Oct 2, 2010 - 3:45 AM   
 By:   Stefan Huber   (Member)

I don't see why this shouldn't be released - and can't believe that nobody's interested in it. Quite honestly, the Barry catalog has vastly improved during the last five years or so. When I started collecting, most of his 1970s work and some of his essential 1960s scores had never been released on CD. We've had a few groundbreaking releases during the last few years (The Last Valley, Mary, Queen Of Scots, The Deep, re-issue of "Until September", etc.), but compared to Williams/Goldsmith/etc. it is still a slow-moving project. So, I can't see why this wouldn't be immediately jumped on. Sure, there are more essential Barry titles that have yet to be issued/re-issued ("The Wrong Box", "Boom", "The Dove", the remainder of the Bond scores - the list is still endless), but most of those are hard to licence.

Maybe the problem is that the title is "too recent" and we have to wait for another decade.

I'm still anxiously awaiting when some releases from JB's private archive will surface. I'd guess that he has many dub-downs of tapes that are thought to be lost (at least for the post-1970 stuff).

 
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