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Posted: |
Aug 20, 2011 - 3:26 PM
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By: |
Bob DiMucci
(Member)
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I have 1776, HAWAII, THE ALAMO and IT'S A MAD MAD MAD MAD WORLD in their full length versions on laser disc and am content with them. I just find it odd that since these longer versions are (were?) available for their laser disc incarnations, why were only the shorter versions released on DVD?
"1776" used workprint footage to fill out the longer version (and possibly some trims that shouldn't have been added back in). Columbia decided to let the director compile his own director's cut, using only the elements that were in the best of shape.
"It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World" also used trimmed footage, again allegedly adding back footage that may not even have appeared in the first run version. MGM decided to issue the "official" roadshow version (with the deletion of an overture or entr'acte in your format of choice).
The long version of "The Alamo" on laserdisc reportedly accurately reflects the original 70mm premiere roadshow version. But by the time the DVD era came along, the single element used for that transfer (a 70mm print found in a Canadian vault) had deteriorated to the point that it could no longer be used. Robert Harris has been attempting to raise funds for a restoration, to no avail.
I've never seen the "Hawaii" laserdisc, so I don't know what the story is with that.
In any case, I don't know if the longer compiled versions of "1776," "IAMMMMW," and "Hawaii" exist in a vault somewhere for them to be re-transferred to DVD/Blu-ray. If they do, I'd say put them out and let the public decide. But of course, I don't have to spend the money for the transfer.
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Posted: |
Aug 20, 2011 - 3:51 PM
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By: |
manderley
(Member)
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.....I have 1776, HAWAII, THE ALAMO and IT'S A MAD MAD MAD MAD WORLD in their full length versions on laser disc and am content with them. I just find it odd that since these longer versions are (were?) available for their laser disc incarnations, why were only the shorter versions released on DVD?.....
I think I can perhaps answer your question, but it will probably be long and tedious. 
(Thor can tune out now, as well as anyone else who doesn't want to plough through this explanation!!!)
1776, THE ALAMO, and IT'S A MAD (4) WORLD were "assembled" for their laser disc incarnations on videotape, not film. They are video edits, coming from random film sources.
The films did not exist at that point as complete, then-intact film negatives, and probably still don't.
In producing these video versions, the original surviving negative, transferred to video, would be assigned as a working base, and the additional material coming from faded prints in both 35mm and 70mm, workprints, alternate outtakes, etc, would be slugged into the missing sections. Thus, there is no complete film master, and so, the quality of this edit, while acceptable on laserdisc, is videotape quality, and would not be acceptable on DVD, and certainly not on Blu-Ray.
If the films COULD be reassembled completely on film, you'd probably have had a full-length roadshow version available by now---if anyone wished to spend the money---which would be considerable.
As for RAINTREE COUNTY, TCM plays BOTH versions alternately. (You must look in the daily guide to ascertain which version is fitted into the time slot, based on your guestimate of the running time.)
I saw RAINTREE COUNTY in its complete Roadshow reserved-seat release in 1957. The re-assembled roadshow version of RAINTREE which plays on TCM is, essentially, the original. The scenes which I missed seeing in the General Release, but which I'd seen in the roadshow, are now back in the film, and the editing of the Intermission break, music and Entr'Acte have been properly assembled, finally. The original running time of the film that sticks in my mind, looking back from 50 years later, and including Overture, Entr'Acte, Exit Music, etc., was about 3 hours 17 minutes. I will search my files and see if I wrote anything down about this at the time to confirm my remembrance.
HOWEVER, and this is the big however, reassembling RAINTREE COUNTY in a "completely-on-film" version---in other words anything other than the General Release---is problematic without major work. (Hopefully they are doing just that right now.)
About 20 years ago, I once talked in detail about this with a nice executive named Dick May---who was then supervising head of Turner/MGM's filmed assets.
To tell the story, first let's go back to the original release of RAINTREE COUNTY for a moment.
RAINTREE was MGM's first film shot in 65mm width "MGM Camera 65, later known as Ultra-Panavision (....others at MGM included BEN-HUR and MUTINY ON THE BOUNTY). For the technical record, Ultra-Panavision is a process using 65mm negative as with Todd-AO, but Camera 65 also introduces an anamorphosis into the shooting, so that the final image, "unsqueezed" and projected from a 70mm print, is much wider than a Todd-AO (spherical) image. (2.76-1 instead of 2.2-1).
Because MGM Camera 65 required much wider screens than were then in existence (....in 1959 the Egyptian in Hollywood had to entirely rebuild the front stage and screen area and re-seat part of their auditorium for their eventual roadshows of BEN-HUR and MUTINY ON THE BOUNTY), it was decided by MGM executives that in order to get the roadshow of RAINTREE into release, they would print the film down to 35mm, instead of rebuilding the theatres. Since no one had ever had such a widescreen image before---other than the specially equipped Cinerama theatres---MGM was simply being cautious.
And so, RAINTREE COUNTY was reduced by MGM to 35mm CinemaScope from the 65mm Eastman camera negatives and was then specially printed, not by the usual Metrocolor labs, but by Technicolor, as 35mm dye-transfer prints. The roadshow prints were all 4-track mag stereo with the reduced Foxhole sprockets and no optical soundtrack so the final aspect ratio of these prints was identical to the early mag stereo CinemaScope prints, 2.55-1. Though the image was not quite as wide as had been shot on the 65mm camera negative, it was still wider than most of the contemporary 35mm MagOptical CinemaScope prints then in use in 1957, which were 2.35-1.
I remember being very impressed with the quality and clarity of the wide 35mm image of RAINTREE, as well as the stereophonic sound, when the film played its roadshow at the Stanley Warner Theatre in Beverly Hills.
Dick May told me that the 65mm Ultra-Panavision negatives of the portions of the film cut from the Roadshow had been junked years ago. 
Retained were the film's 65mm camera negative, as well as the 65mm interpositives and separations---but ALL were conformed to the 35mm General Release cut, with the deleted sections missing and also presumed junked.
The deleted sections of the film which appear in the complete TCM video version are apparently reconstructed from several worn 35mm roadshow prints. You can definitely see a change in quality and color balance when these scenes, or sometimes, simply shots, turn up in the reconstruction. Still, it's important to have them back in the film, and several moments made important points about character motivations within the plot, and I had missed them when they were cut.
So, if Turner/Warner is going to reconstruct this film, unless they've come across a cache of previously unknown 65mm negative outtakes, they will be working from the 65mm general release negative (or dupe element) and the 35mm print copies of the missing scenes. Digital clean-up transfer and enhancement can do wonders, and perhaps even adding a little colorization to bring certain things back into balance, and they can probably present us with a pretty wonderful version of the film for Blu-Ray. We'll hope for the best.
If all of this today follows the same information I received 20 years ago, and nothing new has been found, however, there is still a problem with re-assembling a correct, complete, and intact, 65mm Ultra-Panavision printing negative of the film for future projection on a big screen.
The 65mm original footage has an aspect ratio of 2.76-1 and the 35mm dupe print outtakes footage has a ratio of 2.35/2.55-1. That means that Warner would probably have to do a slight optical blowup to reach the old width, as well as a slight cropping, top/bottom of the 35mm elements---all to fit the Ultra-Panavision ratio. It will take some super-digital artistry to link the old material together without being too jarring---but we've all seen wonders before, so who knows?
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I have 1776, HAWAII, THE ALAMO and IT'S A MAD MAD MAD MAD WORLD in their full length versions on laser disc and am content with them. I just find it odd that since these longer versions are (were?) available for their laser disc incarnations, why were only the shorter versions released on DVD?
"1776" used workprint footage to fill out the longer version (and possibly some trims that shouldn't have been added back in). Columbia decided to let the director compile his own director's cut, using only the elements that were in the best of shape.
"It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World" also used trimmed footage, again allegedly adding back footage that may not even have appeared in the first run version. MGM decided to issue the "official" roadshow version (with the deletion of an overture or entr'acte in your format of choice).
The long version of "The Alamo" on laserdisc reportedly accurately reflects the original 70mm premiere roadshow version. But by the time the DVD era came along, the single element used for that transfer (a 70mm print found in a Canadian vault) had deteriorated to the point that it could no longer be used. Robert Harris has been attempting to raise funds for a restoration, to no avail.
I've never seen the "Hawaii" laserdisc, so I don't know what the story is with that.
In any case, I don't know if the longer compiled versions of "1776," "IAMMMMW," and "Hawaii" exist in a vault somewhere for them to be re-transferred to DVD/Blu-ray. If they do, I'd say put them out and let the public decide. But of course, I don't have to spend the money for the transfer.
Exactly right - but no one wants to hear it. The laserdisc of Mad World did NOT represent the long version that played for four weeks - as stated it had trims and footage that was NEVER in any version of the film outside of the rough cut. So, yes, it is silly not to buy the official roadshow version on blu-ray in a gorgeous transfer.
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Posted: |
Aug 29, 2011 - 1:21 AM
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By: |
Bob DiMucci
(Member)
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Yesterday, the American Film Institute ran "Raintree County" at its Silver Theatre. The offered print was, of course, 35mm. The film did have an Overture, but did not have an Intermission, Entr'Acte, or Exit Music. As presented, the film ran 170 minutes, so it seems to have been the general release version, with Overture attached. The print was also decidedly in mono sound.
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Just wanted to say for any US viewers that "Raintree County" will be broadcasted on TCM on 19th of August!
probably in HD as in previous airings.
Still waiting for a restored Bluray!
I LOVE THIS FILM!
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