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 Posted:   Sep 1, 2011 - 7:15 PM   
 By:   Cooper   (Member)

What's most interesting about the latest round of changes to Star Wars isn't so much the tone-deaf alterations themselves as whether they'll prove so toxic as to warrant retraction in the next iteration of the films. To date, I think that's happened at least once...when Luke's legendary squeal which accompanied his leap from the gantry at the climax of the Not-So-Special Edition of The Empire Strikes back was omitted from the dvd versions. Surely, this latest howler--among others--in the upcoming Blu-ray release of Return of the Jedi will prove just as popular with fans. My bet is George ain't budging on this one, given the speculated thematic ties to another negatory lamentation famously heard at the end of Revenge of the Sith (details below)...

There are also reports of newly inserted CGI critters doing their Python-esque 'Dinsdale!' routine in Jabba's palace, along with the debut of a state-of-the-art rock out-cropping further concealing R2-D2 when Obi-Wan shows up to help Luke out of his Sand People Stupor in Ep IV. So cutting edge is this stone slab, it allegedly disappears once R2 moves out of his hiding spot. And: said arrival of the aforementioned wizened, cloaked one is purported to be accompanied by yet another stab at the eerie, Obi-emulated call of whatever Star Wars-verse beastie George decides makes such an utterance this year.

For the record, I have no dog, Wookie, Wampa or Ugnaught in this fight. This comes from a place of fascination over the confounding, counter-intuitive genius that is George Lucas' maddening, yet probably brilliant and ultimately successful marketing strategy for those movies he owns and that you may have heard about...



A few details:


http://popwatch.ew.com/2011/08/31/return-jedi-darth-vader-nooooo/

 
 Posted:   Sep 1, 2011 - 7:18 PM   
 By:   Eric Paddon   (Member)

I say no too. As in no sale for this or any other release of these films that do not include the original cuts. My days of lining George Lucas's greedy pockets for something I have no use for are over.

I will not be inconvenienced one whit by having to hit the zoom button to watch the old cuts on DVD, because at least the greater satisfaction of knowing it's the correct cut of the film will more than outweigh the inconvenience.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 1, 2011 - 7:41 PM   
 By:   Cooper   (Member)


I will not be inconvenienced one whit by having to hit the zoom button to watch the old cuts on DVD, because at least the greater satisfaction of knowing it's the correct cut of the film will more than outweigh the inconvenience.




They actually look pretty good zoomed on my modest PC monitor (from a few paces back). Windows Media Center will do a proper aspect enlargement, if anyone's interested.

As for the umpteenth incarnation of Star Wars, I guess it's interesting to see Lucas approach film as a subscription service, subject to endless revision in the latest issue. But at some point, the continued effort to inject new life into these movies becomes ghoulish spectacle: juicing that corpse on the slab with too much lightning, resulting in something stiff, pale and lurching; a shadow of its former self.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 1, 2011 - 7:42 PM   
 By:   henry   (Member)

I'm looking forward to getting these Blu-rays the first day they come out. I know these movies so well I'll notice any change big or small. I'm also going to be getting the JURASSIC PARK set the following month.

 
 Posted:   Sep 1, 2011 - 7:46 PM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

(A rant I posted elsewhere, pardon the tone)

The moment someone mentions Star Wars BluRay edits, the Internet turns into that belligerent asshole stoner you wish would leave the party. "We're being wronged by THE MAN and you just don't want to see it!" [Bong Hit] "Seriously, dude, you just don't get it! You're so fascist!"

If you're offended by Star Wars blu ray edits, you're 15 years late to the pity party. He's been doing this for ages and you're angry NOW? AGAIN? PT Barnum said there was one of you born every minute and he was right: the suckers aren't the ones buying them in the new format, its the people making a stink over them. Way to... not enjoy anything! You've won! Cynicism and dumb anger prevails once again!

So give up the shitty fan indignation, Internet. You can never impress anyone else when you're only agreeing with yourself.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 1, 2011 - 7:48 PM   
 By:   henry   (Member)

I'm actually looking forward to seeing the changes.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 1, 2011 - 7:49 PM   
 By:   Cooper   (Member)

I'm looking forward to getting these Blu-rays the first day they come out. I know these movies so well I'll notice any change big or small. I'm also going to be getting the JURASSIC PARK set the following month.


Let us know what you think.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 1, 2011 - 7:50 PM   
 By:   henry   (Member)

I'm looking forward to getting these Blu-rays the first day they come out. I know these movies so well I'll notice any change big or small. I'm also going to be getting the JURASSIC PARK set the following month.


Let us know what you think.


I sure will buddy.smile

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 1, 2011 - 8:23 PM   
 By:   Cooper   (Member)

(A rant I posted elsewhere, pardon the tone)

The moment someone mentions Star Wars BluRay edits, the Internet turns into that belligerent asshole stoner you wish would leave the party. "We're being wronged by THE MAN and you just don't want to see it!" [Bong Hit] "Seriously, dude, you just don't get it! You're so fascist!"

If you're offended by Star Wars blu ray edits, you're 15 years late to the pity party.




Guess I missed the other thread (should've looked farther down the page).

Not offended. Intrigued, perplexed, fascinated by the aforementioned counter-intuitive genius that is George Lucas' handling and marketing of Star Wars.





He's been doing this for ages and you're angry NOW? AGAIN? PT Barnum said there was one of you born every minute and he was right: the suckers aren't the ones buying them in the new format, its the people making a stink over them. Way to... not enjoy anything! You've won! Cynicism and dumb anger prevails once again!




Maybe this issue isn't really about changes, per se, but about bad ones, those that work to a film's detriment (which is the only sort George Lucas seems to know how to do). I did not bemoan Ridley Scott's alterations to Blade Runner: The Final Cut, as I liked them all; they enhanced...subtly, sensibly...and with a great deal of care and finesse, the overall impact of the film. Once again, no Ugnaught in this fight, as my favored versions of the Star Wars films are secured...but most of George Lucas' changes to these films have worsened them. There are few who would disagree with that sentiment, whether they're planning on buying the Blu-rays or not. Myself? Not angry, not cynical. And not buying. I certainly don't begrudge others having a blast with these new versions, even if they have to kid themselves to do it.





So give up the shitty fan indignation, Internet. You can never impress anyone else when you're only agreeing with yourself.




So you try to impress by being a contrarian?

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 1, 2011 - 8:55 PM   
 By:   Cooper   (Member)

I'm actually looking forward to seeing the changes.



They're definitely one way George Lucas keeps these films current, and I'm sure there are a lot more fans out there like you who might be disappointed if he ever announced that he was satisfied with the movies and locked 'em down forever, declared 'em finished.

As long as Lucas is alive and the technology keeps evolving, I'm sure he'll be re-visiting Star Wars. And whether I like it or not, I'm always curious to see what he's doing with it. One thing's for sure, I'm still talking about the films I grew up with (a lot).

I might even pony up for one of the 3D conversions when they hit theaters, just to see what ILM was able to pull off.

 
 Posted:   Sep 1, 2011 - 9:19 PM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

I wouldn't care what he did with the revisions if he only gave us the originals uncut in HD. George finally gave us the originals uncut with the SE DVD's. But the quality of the prints is quite lacking.

I won't be buying these Blu Rays. The SE's are already unwatchable. So these changes matters not.

George will get my money (again) when ever he releases the originals uncut and remastered for HD.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 1, 2011 - 9:34 PM   
 By:   Cooper   (Member)

I wouldn't care what he did with the revisions if he only gave us the originals uncut in HD. George finally gave us the originals uncut with the SE DVD's. But the quality of the prints is quite lacking.




Another thing they got absolutely right with Blade Runner: all versions were restored and represented (in the four dvd set, save the work print, which was in that briefcase dealie). So should anyone balk at The Final Cut, it's easy enough to roll back to Original Theatrical, International, etc. They all look great.

 
 Posted:   Sep 1, 2011 - 9:59 PM   
 By:   nuts_score   (Member)

Another thing they got absolutely right with Blade Runner: all versions were restored and represented (in the four dvd set, save the work print, which was in that briefcase dealie). So should anyone balk at The Final Cut, it's easy enough to roll back to Original Theatrical, International, etc. They all look great.

This! Right on Coop!

The most frustrating thing to me (and I'll count myself amongst those who are more laughing at the changes rather than being livid) is that branching content is such an easy task on the Blu Ray format The choice not to include the original unaltered versions is clearly an egotistical move of someone who considers himself an artist forever altering a work that won universal acclaim and 30+ years of enthusiastic devotion -- yet the man is proven to be a very intelligent businessman, not an artist in any sense of the word. The true artists (Murch, Williams, Ralph McQuarrie and Joe Johnson and the other conceptual artists, Kirshner, John Barry and the other fantastic production designers, Gilbert Taylor and the other superb cinematographers, Marcia Lucas and the brilliant team of editors, Leigh Brackett and Kasdan, et al who worked on the original trilogy) brought to life what George had written on the page under his solid direction, yet Lucas tampers with these people's work even under the circumstance that what they had originally brought to the product worked wonders ($5 billion and counting for Lucasfilm and Fox). He's become a shrewd businessman, with almost a snake-like political charm to continue selling these products under conditions which continuously tamper with the expectations of those that originally made this successful in the first place. To be angered over the fan reaction is completely besides the point, but the realization of Lucas' apathy for those who gave him this empire (no pun intended) should be addressed.

P.S. The additional rock formation covering R2-D2 while he's hiding should be all the evidence one needs -- it's not even physically appropriate for R2 to hide there now!

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 1, 2011 - 10:15 PM   
 By:   Avatarded   (Member)

This box set comes out on my birthday and if I ever received it as a gift, I would keep the three bonus discs, and throw the remaining six movie discs off my balcony like little frisbees. Wouldn't even bother trying to sell them to anyone.

Or keep them as coasters.

 
 Posted:   Sep 1, 2011 - 10:20 PM   
 By:   Sigerson Holmes   (Member)



Michael Jackson once had a very attractive nose.

Even after several procedures, it still looked natural.

But he just couldn't leave it alone.




"Just for once, let me look on you with my own eyes."

. . . But someone please digitally wipe away my own eyebrows.


George just can't leave it alone.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 1, 2011 - 11:40 PM   
 By:   Cooper   (Member)


The most frustrating thing to me (and I'll count myself amongst those who are more laughing at the changes rather than being livid) is that branching content is such an easy task on the Blu Ray format The choice not to include the original unaltered versions is clearly an egotistical move of someone who considers himself an artist forever altering a work that won universal acclaim and 30+ years of enthusiastic devotion -- yet the man is proven to be a very intelligent businessman, not an artist in any sense of the word. The true artists (Murch, Williams, Ralph McQuarrie and Joe Johnson and the other conceptual artists, Kirshner, John Barry and the other fantastic production designers, Gilbert Taylor and the other superb cinematographers, Marcia Lucas and the brilliant team of editors, Leigh Brackett and Kasdan, et al who worked on the original trilogy) brought to life what George had written on the page under his solid direction, yet Lucas tampers with these people's work even under the circumstance that what they had originally brought to the product worked wonders ($5 billion and counting for Lucasfilm and Fox). He's become a shrewd businessman, with almost a snake-like political charm to continue selling these products under conditions which continuously tamper with the expectations of those that originally made this successful in the first place. To be angered over the fan reaction is completely besides the point, but the realization of Lucas' apathy for those who gave him this empire (no pun intended) should be addressed.




Yeah, could be Lucas has gotten a little out of touch with the talent and labor required to get his vision up on screen. It'd be interesting to know whether any of the designers and artists who've worked under Lucas over the years--in some cases enduring changes which remove their original contributions from his movies--have harbored secret fantasies of a Mutiny At The Ranch from the current generation of employees. You know, George requests the latest round of tweaks...and a whole department pushes away from their computer work stations: "Sorry, can't do it...and we're betting The Ranch you can't either..." Har. It might take better economic times and a spirit of independence in people accustomed to working under their own, In-house Emperor...but I'd wager some of those guys with a stronger sense of film conservation dream of the whole team taking a stand on artistic integrity that'd leave George himself at the keys, flop sweat trickling off his forehead as he tried to semi-convincingly animate his newly inserted Sebulba playing Hutt-checkers with Salacious crumb while Leia gets her chain yanked again.



P.S. The additional rock formation covering R2-D2 while he's hiding should be all the evidence one needs -- it's not even physically appropriate for R2 to hide there now!



Never fear! A world of wonder-appendages and tools exist under R2's dome for heavy-lifting, excavation, rock chiseling, what-have-you. All that...and more, in the next next edition of Star Wars: The Complete Saga on Tru-Vision Holo-Media.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 2, 2011 - 6:15 AM   
 By:   MikeP   (Member)

Well, the other changes, the special editions, I didn't mind at all. Except for Greedo shooting first. I liked the spiffy effects and Cloud City finally looking like...well...a city. Guess I was in that minority that overall was cool with the SE's.

But now...adding a clumsy "Nooooooooooo" to a moment which already played very well and was excellent drama and a wonderful climatic moment... is more than just cleaning up or correcting effects you didn't like.
This is an idiotic change that shows GL really has lost his dramatic touch. This moment was never, ever in question, never taunted as a bad moment or an awkward bit of direction. In fact in a movie that isn't generally well liked, everyone seems to like that climactic moment. It just shows... not that GL is " raping my childhood" ( I fucking HATE that fanboy rant) , but that Lucas really has lost touch with the movies themselves, with Star Wars fandom and and lost touch with his creative spark. I've cancelled my Blu Ray pre-order. Really I've had enough and as someone who was there when Star Wars opened wide in 1977, it is a shame.

 
 Posted:   Sep 2, 2011 - 6:31 AM   
 By:   That Neil Guy   (Member)

This discussion reminds me of John Scalzi's piece, "The Lie of Star Wars as Entertainment"

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2006/10/11/the-lie-of-star-wars-as-entertainment/

"Star Wars is not entertainment. Star Wars is George Lucas masturbating to a picture of Joseph Campbell and conning billions of people into watching the money shot."

The article is well worth a read.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 2, 2011 - 7:10 AM   
 By:   William R.   (Member)

The scene where Vader flips was powerful because of his silence. It was a slow-burn epiphany that he has been used as a tool of evil, and that those he once loved have been destroyed as a result. Of course, Lucas no longer trusts the audience to intuit such an idea without some laughable vocalization from the characters. As has been said elsewhere, he seems to have some undiagnosed form of OCD, but usually such people are obsessed with tidying things up, rather than making more messes.

 
 Posted:   Sep 2, 2011 - 9:18 AM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

Guess I missed the other thread (should've looked farther down the page).

No, this is was on another board altogether.

Not offended. Intrigued, perplexed, fascinated by the aforementioned counter-intuitive genius that is George Lucas' handling and marketing of Star Wars.

Oh, theres nothing genius about it. I don't like the new changes, either.

The difference is I'm not acting like a spoiled brat over it either, nor am I feigning surprise or a misplaced indignation over this.

So you try to impress by being a contrarian?

Its not a matter of impressing so much as its a matter of being a goddamned adult about things.

Firstly, George Lucas owns Star Wars. You do not. Your childhood does not. Its his. He can fuck it up however he likes.

Secondly, Lucas is not attempting to piss off fans but create a "perfect", continuity error free group of films. While you and I agree that we don't want these edits, this is actually an admirable goal even if the final result is something of a bastardization. But with that in mind, heres the nail in the coffin - noting and I mean NOTHING the Internet has attempted to paint this as is true. This is not "George Lucas hates me" or "rapes childhoods" or any of that shit-steam heat nonsense. Thats just small-minded children who grew older but never grew up. Its almost like a wide-spread case of an Asperger's logic.

Next, If you're surprised he's doing this after the 1997 Special Edition, you need brain medication and/or therapy. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me multiple times over the last fifteen years using the same tools and editing devices and changes across multiple formats, shame on me.

PT Barnum said that theres a sucker born every minute and in this case the suckers aren't the people buying the BluRays but the people hating on them. You're surprised he's doing this again? Thats like saying you're astonished the sun rises in the morning. Are people really this stupid?

If the Internet wants to be angry at someone - go to the press. They covered the BR annoucements weeks (months?) ago and they never mentioned these things despite having seen the footage. This is because the press is bought; they're given free stuff and press credentials and are basically bribed NOT to give bad press about this set. You want to be angry? Go be angry at the failure of mass media.

Finally - No one cares. No one SHOULD care. But the internet does, unfortunately. The moment you agree with the Internet, your self-respect alarms should go off. This is something thats been beaten to death. THE PHANTOM MENACE RUINED EVERYTHING (no, it didn't) AND GEORGE LUCAS HATES THE FANS (he doesn't know you're alive) AND HE JUST DOESN'T GET IT (yes he does).

But the internet has no problem with detailing the Star Wars universe to death (small universe syndrome) by explaining away the backstory of every alien in the Cantina, is more interested in how many guns Boba Fett has on his armor, with how big the biggest spaceship is in its canon. About the horrible, horrible novels (A star destroyer burried underneath Imperial City... used as a prison... and then takes off... Thats a novel! Or how about the ZOMBIE STORMTROOPER novel?), the crappy tie-ins like The Force Unleashed 2 (and its dreadful novels) or the comic books (which are nothing more than simple continuity masturbation) or any number of things that the people that DEMAND THE ORIGINAL EDITS support lovingly despite the fact they're a far greater "whoring out" than anything Lucas could create in a wetdream.

Heres a joke for you: Whats worse for Star Wars than George Lucas in an editing suite?

Answer: The fans.

(That John Scalzi peice is crap. Campbell approved of Star Wars because it works. It adheres to the universal material Campbell only pointed out. To say otherwise would also be attacking Frank Herbert, which I doubt this guy has the stones to do. Its sour grapes from some iffy sci-fi writer who photoshops pictures of himself to put on Wikipedia. Yeah, great, I guess - but thats no one anyone should listen to.)

 
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