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 Posted:   Apr 10, 2013 - 7:51 AM   
 By:   Jeff Bond   (Member)

This is, I believe, the ONLY Goldsmith score post 1979 to have never received a soundtrack recording of any kind (unless you're counting the rejected The Public Eye), so that makes it important, plus the fact that the film is a suspense thriller, it's done in Goldsmith's edgy, in-your-face late 70s/early 80s style and has one of the last propulsive, stylized main titles he ever wrote. And yes, it's well known that Goldsmith probably scored more lousy movies than good ones--it's his music that often makes the film notable rather than the reverse.

As for Lawrence of Arabia, that IS a film where the score tapes (as opposed to a mediocre-sounding album master) have long been lost, and there have only been two attempts at rerecording of that to my knowledge, so we're not dealing with the "umpteenth" recording of that masterwork. Tadlow's latest rerecording of Lawrence was stellar and a must-have rendition of an all-time classic work and probably the only way to truly appreciate the entire score outside the film (unlike Star Wars where we have all that music available to us in its original form).

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 10, 2013 - 8:24 AM   
 By:   Foodman   (Member)

This is, I believe, the ONLY Goldsmith score post 1979 to have never received a soundtrack recording of any kind (unless you're counting the rejected The Public Eye), so that makes it important, plus the fact that the film is a suspense thriller, it's done in Goldsmith's edgy, in-your-face late 70s/early 80s style and has one of the last propulsive, stylized main titles he ever wrote. And yes, it's well known that Goldsmith probably scored more lousy movies than good ones--it's his music that often makes the film notable rather than the reverse.

Jeff, sorry to get off the subject but, do you have any idea if The List Of Adrian Messenger's music is lost like Salamander? Many of us are waiting for the List to be issued, and it would seem like you are one of the very few that might know whether the music still exists.

If it's lost, it would be great if someone like Tadlow would do it.

 
 Posted:   Apr 10, 2013 - 9:49 AM   
 By:   Jeff Bond   (Member)

As far as I know Adrian Messenger is not lost; that said, I'm not aware of anyone specifically working on it at the moment.

 
 Posted:   Apr 10, 2013 - 9:51 AM   
 By:   Jeff Bond   (Member)

And one correction--on Lawrence of Arabia, apparently the tapes aren't lost, they've just been in legal limbo forever--so until that changes, the Tadlow rerecording is still the best option for experiencing the complete score outside the movie.

 
 Posted:   Apr 10, 2013 - 9:59 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

This is, I believe, the ONLY Goldsmith score post 1979 to have never received a soundtrack recording of any kind (unless you're counting the rejected The Public Eye),

That's true, but only if you're being very charitable towards the Lonely Guy LP which only had two short Goldsmith score cues.

Also, I thought there might be other rejected/unused Goldsmith scores that were at least partially recorded such as Wall Street (or was that one just partially written and not recorded at all?) In any case, as long as you count the paltry bit of Lonely Guy and ignore any rejected scores that might exist, The Salamander was *the* most recent Goldsmith score to not get any release of any kind, even a re-recording at the time of the film. And it also happens to be, with the sole exception I think of Under Fire, the most recent (non-rejected) Goldsmith score to have the original tracks totally lost...hope I'm not wrong about that!

For those who are curious, the *new* "most recent Goldsmith feature score totally unreleased" is The Reincarnation of Peter Proud, although there was an unmentionable. The Salamander didn't even have that!

Conrad at the Intrada board has made a really nice table of Goldsmith feature scores and most up to date releases, though he hasn't updated yet for The Salamander:
http://www.intrada.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4976

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Apr 10, 2013 - 10:00 AM   
 By:   Lokutus   (Member)

Don't forget LONELY GUY too... although it has had a release, those few cues on the old casette (or LP?) are hardly enough to consider it proper release of the score.

 
 Posted:   Apr 10, 2013 - 10:00 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

And one correction--on Lawrence of Arabia, apparently the tapes aren't lost, they've just been in legal limbo forever--so until that changes, the Tadlow rerecording is still the best option for experiencing the complete score outside the movie.

That's the first I've heard of it, and exciting news! We'd always been told it was as lost as Exodus's original recording in the past...thanks Tadlow for definitive versions of both!

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Apr 10, 2013 - 12:27 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

I woonder if Riotengine will buy this?

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 10, 2013 - 12:28 PM   
 By:   mnrvason   (Member)

Ordered this exciting title from SAE yesterday. Can't wait to hear it!

SheriffJoe

 
 Posted:   Apr 10, 2013 - 2:35 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)


2) I have the movie on VHS and watch it from time to time to hear the music. As I recall the music in the film, I had the impression that the re-recording was fairly accurate with respect to the original score, which made me very happy. Does anyone know if Nic Raine had access to the original score (music sketches)?


This wasn't reconstructed by Nic Raine but Leigh Phillips (who's done several other great reconstructions including Lawrence of Arabia and Exodus). In this thread he reveals that in fact not only were there no original parts/scores, but there wasn't even a reduced conductor score or even a piano reduction of the cues (often around for legal purposes) to be had! He did the entire thing be ear listening to a foreign DVD release of the film and for my money it sounds incredibly accurate and authentic!
http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=95569&forumID=1&archive=0

Yavar

P.S. Goldsmith did in fact use synthesizers, but minimally -- pretty much just as added percussion, as far as I can tell (and you can hear them in the Tadlow re-recording video as well).

 
 Posted:   Apr 10, 2013 - 2:41 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Without reading this whole thread, I'm just wondering why this obscure score was chosen. It may be brilliant for all know, but I've never heard of the movie (it gets 5.2 on IMDB and is described as slow, which doesn't bode well for those wanting exciting music) nor ever seen anyone asking for the soundtrack. Is it a favourite of James Fitzpatrick's? What's the story?

Not that you haven't already been well-answered by various people already, but I think clearly you haven't listened to the YouTube performance clip of the final score cue, or you wouldn't have even asked the question of why this is being recorded:



Clearly there's no lack of excitement to be had here -- and you haven't even hear the choir yet! How many terrible, slow movies did Goldsmith write amazing music for? (This movie can't be as bad as Omen III/The Final Conflict...) Simply put, this is an amazing Goldsmith score from his strongest period and it's had no release of any kind before (the most recent non-rejected score of his to bear that dubious honor). For Goldsmith fans it's definitely one of the most in-demand for a re-recording since the original tapes were lost, and there wasn't even a brief re-recorded album at the time of the film like the first in the new Tadlow/Prometheus series, Hour of the Gun, got.

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 10, 2013 - 2:47 PM   
 By:   TJ   (Member)

Ordered this exciting title from SAE yesterday. Can't wait to hear it!

SheriffJoe


SheriffJoe, why is your username no longer SheriffJoe?

 
 Posted:   Apr 10, 2013 - 3:02 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Does anyone besides me think that the two bonus tracks on this release may be "test balloons" like that great Conan the Destroyer cue was when it was included on the Barbarian recording? Perhaps Luc is wisely testing the waters on these two to see if people get more enthusiastic about them based on fresh new recordings in great sound? Both of these came out on Prometheus (Cassandra Crossing complete but in less than amazing mono sound) but Ransom/The Terrorists in particular is one of the worst sounding Goldsmith albums ever put out (and half of it was inexplicably in mono). It repeated two cues unnecessarily and might really shine in a complete new re-recording...as it is the current album I barely listen to -- and that's no fault of Goldsmith who wrote excellent music or Prometheus who cleaned up the sound the best they could (night and day with the previous horrible-sounding Silva release).

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Apr 10, 2013 - 3:37 PM   
 By:   Gary S.   (Member)

Ordered along with Notre Dame de Paris and the Tadlow sampler cd.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 11, 2013 - 2:58 AM   
 By:   pp312   (Member)

Without reading this whole thread, I'm just wondering why this obscure score was chosen. It may be brilliant for all know, but I've never heard of the movie (it gets 5.2 on IMDB and is described as slow, which doesn't bode well for those wanting exciting music) nor ever seen anyone asking for the soundtrack. Is it a favourite of James Fitzpatrick's? What's the story?

Not that you haven't already been well-answered by various people already, but I think clearly you haven't listened to the YouTube performance clip of the final score cue, or you wouldn't have even asked the question of why this is being recorded


Actually I haven't been well answered as yet as no one seems to know the answer. The quality of the music doesn't answer the question--and when I say that I'm thinking of a recent debate about what Rozsa score should next be recorded. I suggested Sodom & Gomorrah on the basis of its quality but was assured that was unlikely to happen due to the fact that the film is poor and little known. Here we have a score for a film I've never heard of (and I have quite a good recall for films) suddenly getting a re-recording seemingly out of the blue, with no prior debate or mass requests (not that I've seen anyway). So in that sense the question hasn't been answered. If The Salamander can get a re-recording, then I think the argument against Sodom & Gomorrah has just been blown out of the water.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 11, 2013 - 4:40 AM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

Actually I haven't been well answered as yet as no one seems to know the answer. The quality of the music doesn't answer the question--and when I say that I'm thinking of a recent debate about what Rozsa score should next be recorded. I suggested Sodom & Gomorrah on the basis of its quality but was assured that was unlikely to happen due to the fact that the film is poor and little known. Here we have a score for a film I've never heard of (and I have quite a good recall for films) suddenly getting a re-recording seemingly out of the blue, with no prior debate or mass requests (not that I've seen anyway). So in that sense the question hasn't been answered. If The Salamander can get a re-recording, then I think the argument against Sodom & Gomorrah has just been blown out of the water.

1. It's Jerry Goldsmith
2. It was written during one of his most adored periods - specifically the early 80s
3. The masters are missing.
4. It's a gaping hole in his discography.
5. It's a bloody good score.
6. People want it (the reason there isn't more discussion is because people have accepted an album was never going to happen - see point 3.)

What more reason do you need?

 
 Posted:   Apr 11, 2013 - 8:14 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

pp312, I'm with you in wanting a Sodom & Gomorrah re-recording, but it's a different situation from this in two ways:

1) Though Digitmovies dropped the ball big time on the mastering, they *did* release the almost-complete score on CD several years ago. Plus, the score has had at least two different prior CD releases. It's had exposure and not everyone who wants a copy of the score would necessarily pick up the re-recording. With The Salamander, not one note had been released *anywhere* before, even a re-recorded cue on a compilation (which Sodom & Gomorrah has also had).

2) Much as it pains me, Miklos Rozsa outside of his scores for "famous" films like Ben-Hur, Quo Vadis, and El Cid, doesn't tend to sell nearly as well as Jerry Goldsmith...especially 80s Jerry Goldsmith. I don't think Tadlow's Private Life of Sherlock Holmes sold nearly as well as it *should* have (this was early on when they were still limiting to 3000 copies, and I don't think it sold them all) -- especially considering crossover appeal from Sherlock Holmes fans and Billy Wilder fans. Jerry Goldsmith tends to sell even for the shittiest movies imaginable...even if the score isn't one of his best! (And The Salamander sounds like it's pretty high up there for his 80s output!)

All that said, I hope James DOES tackle Sodom & Gomorrah in the future as it's one of my absolute favorite Rozsa scores...and hey maybe there's even some more music that can be found in the written scores, assuming they exist.

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 11, 2013 - 1:02 PM   
 By:   TJ   (Member)

Does anyone besides me think that the two bonus tracks on this release may be "test balloons" like that great Conan the Destroyer cue was when it was included on the Barbarian recording? Perhaps Luc is wisely testing the waters on these two to see if people get more enthusiastic about them based on fresh new recordings in great sound? Both of these came out on Prometheus (Cassandra Crossing complete but in less than amazing mono sound) but Ransom/The Terrorists in particular is one of the worst sounding Goldsmith albums ever put out (and half of it was inexplicably in mono). It repeated two cues unnecessarily and might really shine in a complete new re-recording...as it is the current album I barely listen to -- and that's no fault of Goldsmith who wrote excellent music or Prometheus who cleaned up the sound the best they could (night and day with the previous horrible-sounding Silva release).

Yavar


I wouldn't read too much into it, although it's certainly possible. It is also possible that Luc is a fan of those scores (hence he released the albums) and wanted better quality suites in his collection. When it was determined how much time was left on the album / in the sessions, they chose these scores.

The Conan the Destroyer cue was an obvious choice as a bonus track on Conan the Barbarian. Not so much here.

 
 Posted:   Apr 12, 2013 - 8:14 AM   
 By:   mastadge   (Member)

This should arrive today. Can't wait!

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 12, 2013 - 8:58 AM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

Mine has arrived in the UK. Already on the second listen. It's stunning!!!

 
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