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 Posted:   Apr 23, 2008 - 8:05 PM   
 By:   Matt B   (Member)

I'm more amazed there are people who HAVEN'T had sex to Conan the Barabarian!

Maybe some of us are just not all that eager to talk about it here.

 
 Posted:   Apr 23, 2008 - 8:25 PM   
 By:   PhiladelphiaSon   (Member)

GAY!

 
 Posted:   Apr 23, 2008 - 9:10 PM   
 By:   DavidinBerkeley   (Member)

I'm rather surprised to be the first to mention Williams' sexy music for THE TOWERING INFERNO - "Susan and Doug" and "More for Susan," both of which make me think (happily) of a handsome and chiseled 40-ish Paul Newman striding across that great set in just a grin and a towel.

Oh, yeah, Faye Dunaway was in the scene, too.

(the FSM cd is no longer listed on the screenarchives website since it's out of print, or I'd put a link to it)

Also not mentioned is the idea that Williams might choose not to accept films with the sort of hip-grinding sensuality that inspired some of the hottest writing from North, et. al. (Page Cook reported that Rozsa turned down BODY HEAT because of the sexual content).

 
 Posted:   Apr 23, 2008 - 9:32 PM   
 By:   Matt B   (Member)

GAY!

Classy.

 
 Posted:   Apr 23, 2008 - 9:32 PM   
 By:   Ron Pulliam   (Member)

I can't agree with the notion that Goldsmith doesn't write straight from his heart. Just listen to Islands In The Stream.

Alex



Oh, Alex. "Islands in the Stream" seems particularly emotionally removed to me. It's intellectually stimulating and has moments of beauty...but at a remove. I also did not find the film particularly warm.

I don't get "straight-from-the-heart" vibes at all in this score.

 
 Posted:   Apr 23, 2008 - 9:33 PM   
 By:   Ron Pulliam   (Member)

Speaking of which, here's a funny thread about having sex to film music:

Wow. Somebody has had sex to CONAN THE BARBARIAN.

Somehow, I don't think that would fly with my current flame...


I'm more amazed there are people who HAVEN'T had sex to Conan the Barabarian! razz



Try Morricone's "The Mission" sometime. AMAZING!

 
 Posted:   Apr 23, 2008 - 9:34 PM   
 By:   Ron Pulliam   (Member)

GAY!

Classy.


Are you reading this as a slur? If it is then I am very shocked, not only by the fact of it but the source of it.

 
 Posted:   Apr 23, 2008 - 10:21 PM   
 By:   PhiladelphiaSon   (Member)

GAY!

Classy.


Something wrong with being gay?

As for classy, how about the thread's title?

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 23, 2008 - 10:34 PM   
 By:   Arch Stanton   (Member)

While Ron has made some truly remarkable statements in this thread (and I don't mean that in a good way), I do have to respond to two in particular.


I have encountered several film music fans who find Goldsmith's music (while wonderful and exciting) a bit on the cold/detached side.

And I've actually run into a few people who thought CITIZEN KANE was a lousy movie. Your statement means absolutely nothing.

Or do you mean he's trying to sell something that doesn't exist (sort of like the love theme in "The Wind and the Lion" when there is no romance to be found)?

Either you have not seen the movie or you just didn't understand what you were seeing. There is definitely a strong romance between Candice Bergen and Sean Connery. Yes, it's mostly on her end, but Connery certainly feels something for her, too. Obviously, it's more of a platonic thing. Perhaps you didn't understand that.

 
 Posted:   Apr 23, 2008 - 10:43 PM   
 By:   ZapBrannigan   (Member)

As for classy, how about the thread's title?

The title is perfectly legitimate. Note that there is no possesive indicated (no apostrophe-s). Would you object to "John Barry Action" or "James Horner Sorrow"? If it got attention, sue me. But the question I posted was musical and this is the music board. smile

Great replies all around, btw.

 
 Posted:   Apr 23, 2008 - 10:57 PM   
 By:   Steve Johnson   (Member)


Also not mentioned is the idea that Williams might choose not to accept films with the sort of hip-grinding sensuality that inspired some of the hottest writing from North, et. al. (Page Cook reported that Rozsa turned down BODY HEAT because of the sexual content).


Like most of Page Cook's Cooked up sources, I'd like to see proof that Rozsa was offered this film.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 23, 2008 - 11:07 PM   
 By:   Michael Arlidge   (Member)

Like most of Page Cook's Cooked up sources, I'd like to see proof that Rozsa was offered this film.

http://www.runmovies.be/index.php?option=com_alphacontent§ion=7&cat=90&task=view&id=413&Itemid=99999999

The part relating to Body Heat is on the 2nd page. Quote:

"Have there been recent films that you have been offered, but that you have declined?
Yes, there were quite a lot. I was offered BODY HEAT. I read the script and I found it disgusting. It was an imitation - I don’t want to use the word “steal”, I’m not a judge - of DOUBLE INDEMNITY. That I’ve done once, I can’t do it twice. There was the whole aspect of exaggerated sex scenes. I didn’t want to have my name on it. I would have betrayed my trade, actually. I hear the picture is very good, though."

 
 Posted:   Apr 23, 2008 - 11:09 PM   
 By:   Steve Johnson   (Member)

accidental post

 
 Posted:   Apr 23, 2008 - 11:12 PM   
 By:   Steve Johnson   (Member)

Like most of Page Cook's Cooked up sources, I'd like to see proof that Rozsa was offered this film.

http://www.runmovies.be/index.php?option=com_alphacontent§ion=7&cat=90&task=view&id=413&Itemid=99999999

The part relating to Body Heat is on the 2nd page. Quote:

"Have there been recent films that you have been offered, but that you have declined?
Yes, there were quite a lot. I was offered BODY HEAT. I read the script and I found it disgusting. It was an imitation - I don’t want to use the word “steal”, I’m not a judge - of DOUBLE INDEMNITY. That I’ve done once, I can’t do it twice. There was the whole aspect of exaggerated sex scenes. I didn’t want to have my name on it. I would have betrayed my trade, actually. I hear the picture is very good, though."


I asked, you showed. Gracias.


I can't imagine a Rozsa score in that movie. Barry did a fine job, one of his best of the eighties.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 23, 2008 - 11:22 PM   
 By:   Mikhail   (Member)

As for classy, how about the thread's title?

The thread title is actually clever. Apparently too clever for most; there is no apostrophe after "Williams." Ergo, "sexuality" is disambiguated by "Williams," obviously meaning "Williams' scoring of that subject matter."

If the title were "John Williams' Sexuality," it would be another matter entirely. wink But yes, I know... it's still misleading, and intentionally so.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 23, 2008 - 11:24 PM   
 By:   Mikhail   (Member)

The title is perfectly legitimate. Note that there is no possesive indicated (no apostrophe-s). Would you object to "John Barry Action" or "James Horner Sorrow"? If it got attention, sue me. But the question I posted was musical and this is the music board.

LOL! That's what I get for not reading *all* the posts before I post.

 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2008 - 8:23 AM   
 By:   PhiladelphiaSon   (Member)





And I've actually run into a few people who thought CITIZEN KANE was a lousy movie. Your statement means absolutely nothing.



Wait! Are you implying that it isn't a lousy movie?

 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2008 - 8:24 AM   
 By:   PhiladelphiaSon   (Member)

As for classy, how about the thread's title?

The thread title is actually clever. Apparently too clever for most; there is no apostrophe after "Williams." Ergo, "sexuality" is disambiguated by "Williams," obviously meaning "Williams' scoring of that subject matter."

If the title were "John Williams' Sexuality," it would be another matter entirely. wink But yes, I know... it's still misleading, and intentionally so.


Yes. I said it was classy.

 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2008 - 8:42 AM   
 By:   Ron Pulliam   (Member)

While Ron has made some truly remarkable statements in this thread (and I don't mean that in a good way), I do have to respond to two in particular.


I have encountered several film music fans who find Goldsmith's music (while wonderful and exciting) a bit on the cold/detached side.

And I've actually run into a few people who thought CITIZEN KANE was a lousy movie. Your statement means absolutely nothing.


Just because you don't like what I've said does not mean my statement is meaningless. To you, perhaps, but it's worthwhile bringing up. Goldsmith's writing is more cerebral than anything. It's more often than not a bit emotion-LESS, IMO.

Or do you mean he's trying to sell something that doesn't exist (sort of like the love theme in "The Wind and the Lion" when there is no romance to be found)?

Either you have not seen the movie or you just didn't understand what you were seeing. There is definitely a strong romance between Candice Bergen and Sean Connery. Yes, it's mostly on her end, but Connery certainly feels something for her, too. Obviously, it's more of a platonic thing. Perhaps you didn't understand that.

There is no romance between Connery and Bergen. "I Remember" implies otherwise. You may want there to be a romance, but it's not there. The most that can be said of their "relationship" is that she grew to admire him for his convictions, but NO romance is implied except by the music. You may be more forgiving of the poorly developed screenplay in that regard. The Raisuli looked upon Eden as a curious object...something he could not quite understand (despite his own western education). She was a strong woman, undoubtedly, and this fascinated him. But...no romance. And yes, I've seen the movie many, many times and thrilled to it because of the wonderful score.

I do not consider anything I've written about my perception of Goldsmith's writing to be a "negative thing." It's one of the reasons I'm often drawn to him, along with the exquisite musical sensibility he infused into his writing. I can be touched, even moved, by Goldsmith's music, but in a far different, defintely less emotional way, than I am by Williams'.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2008 - 12:43 PM   
 By:   Arch Stanton   (Member)

Just because you don't like what I've said does not mean my statement is meaningless. To you, perhaps, but it's worthwhile bringing up. Goldsmith's writing is more cerebral than anything. It's more often than not a bit emotion-LESS, IMO.

And, as I pretty much indicated, you are quite incorrect. I find this particularly amusing since your profile shows you to be a Golden Age guy, where almost every emotion (like most John Williams' later scores) is overblown to a sappy degree. That's not to say it's not great music, but Goldsmith had much more emotion in his brilliant restraint.

I recently saw ELIZABETH AND ESSEX and NOW, VOYAGER on TCM and was appalled by how obnoxious the scores were to their respective films. The music itself was great, of course, but both scores made the films phoney -- the stuff of parody. At least Steiner managed to have some decent moments in VOYAGER, but almost every note in ESSEX was overblown to the max.

If that's what you want, fine. But please don't try to tell me more is more...


There is no romance between Connery and Bergen. "I Remember" implies otherwise. You may want there to be a romance, but it's not there. The most that can be said of their "relationship" is that she grew to admire him for his convictions, but NO romance is implied except by the music. You may be more forgiving of the poorly developed screenplay in that regard. The Raisuli looked upon Eden as a curious object...something he could not quite understand (despite his own western education). She was a strong woman, undoubtedly, and this fascinated him. But...no romance. And yes, I've seen the movie many, many times and thrilled to it because of the wonderful score.

Poorly developed screenplay? Not hardly.

The evidence is on the screen as to a 'romance' existing in the film. Maybe you're limiting your thinking to a physical love. But there are many other kinds of romance.

Frankly, I find their 'romance' refreshing and Goldsmith captured it perfectly.

I can be touched, even moved, by Goldsmith's music, but in a far different, defintely less emotional way, than I am by Williams'.

Well, that's just sad. Goldsmith captured the perfect feel for almost every movie he ever scored.

Williams (like many of the Golden Agers) just slathered his films with great, but decidedly pompous and overblown music. (I think E.T. may be the perfect example here.)

I think this thread is terrific because it points out, in no uncertain terms, that Williams rarely (if ever) captured sensuality or sexuality.

Of all the examples given, I think the closest he ever came was with PENELOPE. I think the cue is called 'Poolside.'

 
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