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It sounds like the problem is that you don't understand film music. This also affirms what I said in another thread, which is that there a lot of fake film music lovers here. I think a lot of people here pretend to like film music when in reality they are really lovers of classical or symphonic music. I bet you if Mozart is still alive writing music, people here would laugh at John Williams fans. "How can you listen to trash like Williams when Mozart is playing his concert next door!?" Zimmer is writing music for a film, not a symphony for the elite. Same with Elfman. Their job is to compose music to fit the context of the film, whether it is classical, modern, or electronic. Your post completely dismisses anyone with an electronic music background. Basically anyone without a classical background. And I think that is ashamed.
Hello, Mephariel.
Somewhat tangential, but I’ve pointed out that “false film music fans” can be recognized by how they make all sorts of claims to loving film music but their words actually denigrate the art form of creating music in support of film. And criticism of the composer without regard for the context you cite can, accordingly, be very unfair.
This thread addresses critical context, particularly its entries beginning May, 2015:
https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?pageID=1&forumID=1&threadID=89753&archive=0
This is really great, a fantastic read and I'm looking forward to jumping into that thread a bit deeper when I have some time.
The issue here though, is that we are FANS, not CRITICS.
Critics do have a responsibility to honesty and integrity and reviewing the actual product, not the producer.
Fans don't have any of those responsibilities. This is not the NYT or Rotten Tomatoes. This is basically a bunch of people sitting around and talking about what they like and don't like. and our silly little opinions are obviously having zero impact on the careers of people like Zimmer.
I also don't see how expressing a dislike for Zimmer is somehow denigrating the art form. Film composing is not some fragile, dying art. The type or style of film music I like may be out of fashion (right now) and I think it's okay for me and others to lament that but that certainly doesn't mean we don't understand film music or we are not valid fans.
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Posted: |
Jan 25, 2023 - 12:53 PM
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By: |
Tall Guy
(Member)
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Most definitely. Especially here and on JWFAN.
Well, I'm stating once more for the record that, on this site, Zimmer fans tend to go after the non-fans on a personal level, while the non-fans usually limit their critique to Zimmer himself (until that personal attack against them has been launched).
(And I'm concerned about the here and now--not what happened 20 years ago or some other website.)
How about 17th July 2022 in the “Zimmer’s Early Years” thread?
I suggested it was facile (meaning superficial) to say that there was a point in time when HZ went from good to bad, because he has some great later works, and was then quoted by you in a perfectly civil response, albeit it of course not agreeing. Then Jurassic T Park weighed in to say “Don’t know who wrote that first comment because I must have blocked them, but I can see it was a good decision on my part.”
Dismissive and insulting, an attempt to belittle someone (anyone) who appears to be supporting Zimmer.
I maintain that current-day Zimmer fans react as they do now because they were initially backed into a corner by the JTPs of previous times.
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Most definitely. Especially here and on JWFAN.
Well, I'm stating once more for the record that, on this site, Zimmer fans tend to go after the non-fans on a personal level, while the non-fans usually limit their critique to Zimmer himself (until that personal attack against them has been launched).
(And I'm concerned about the here and now--not what happened 20 years ago or some other website.)
How about 17th July 2022 in the “Zimmer’s Early Years” thread?
I suggested it was facile (meaning superficial) to say that there was a point in time when HZ went from good to bad, because he has some great later works, and was then quoted by you in a perfectly civil response, albeit it of course not agreeing. Then Jurassic T Park weighed in to say “Don’t know who wrote that first comment because I must have blocked them, but I can see it was a good decision on my part.”
Dismissive and insulting, an attempt to belittle someone (anyone) who appears to be supporting Zimmer.
I maintain that current-day Zimmer fans react as they do now because they were initially backed into a corner by the JTPs of previous times.
Every fandom has its hot button topics and Zimmer seems to be the topic du jour. Back in the day, similar mudslinging occurred between Horner apologists and those who didn't like his self-referencing and that salty topic still gets dragged out from time to time. Zimmer is arguably as big now as Horner was in the 90s so I think it just has to do with trends.
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Posted: |
Jan 25, 2023 - 1:23 PM
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By: |
Grack21
(Member)
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Most definitely. Especially here and on JWFAN.
Well, I'm stating once more for the record that, on this site, Zimmer fans tend to go after the non-fans on a personal level, while the non-fans usually limit their critique to Zimmer himself (until that personal attack against them has been launched).
(And I'm concerned about the here and now--not what happened 20 years ago or some other website.)
How about 17th July 2022 in the “Zimmer’s Early Years” thread?
I suggested it was facile (meaning superficial) to say that there was a point in time when HZ went from good to bad, because he has some great later works, and was then quoted by you in a perfectly civil response, albeit it of course not agreeing. Then Jurassic T Park weighed in to say “Don’t know who wrote that first comment because I must have blocked them, but I can see it was a good decision on my part.”
Dismissive and insulting, an attempt to belittle someone (anyone) who appears to be supporting Zimmer.
I maintain that current-day Zimmer fans react as they do now because they were initially backed into a corner by the JTPs of previous times.
Every fandom has its hot button topics and Zimmer seems to be the topic du jour. Back in the day, similar mudslinging occurred between Horner apologists and those who didn't like his self-referencing and that salty topic still gets dragged out from time to time. Zimmer is arguably as big now as Horner was in the 90s so I think it just has to do with trends.
Oh I remember the Horner/Goldsmith war of the 90s back on usenet. Bloody.
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Posted: |
Jan 25, 2023 - 1:47 PM
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By: |
Howard L
(Member)
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Well, I'm stating once more for the record that, on this site, Zimmer fans tend to go after the non-fans on a personal level, while the non-fans usually limit their critique to Zimmer himself (until that personal attack against them has been launched).
(And I'm concerned about the here and now--not what happened 20 years ago or some other website.)
Point taken. It is interesting nonetheless to see how hot and heavy, not to mention instructive and downright humorous the 2001 entries are. Whatever passed for vitriol then did not negate the camaraderie to any appreciable degree. It's hard to believe now but it's true.
This thread addresses critical context, particularly its entries beginning May, 2015:
https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?pageID=1&forumID=1&threadID=89753&archive=0
This is really great, a fantastic read and I'm looking forward to jumping into that thread a bit deeper when I have some time.
The issue here though, is that we are FANS, not CRITICS.
Oh but it is so much FUN when fans criticize critics! 
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If you read my previous post, you'll see I am a fan of Arnold and Elfman and maybe it's just because I feel like I would rather grab a beer with them than Zimmer
What if he changed his name to Hans Zolo?
If he was buying, sure. Lol.
But Hans shot first! If you told him you didn't like his music, you'd get blastered under the table!
Hands and Hans must be visible at all times 
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Posted: |
Jan 25, 2023 - 11:24 PM
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By: |
Tall Guy
(Member)
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Defensive against what? He didn’t even hold the opinion that I was arguing against!
The evidence simply doesn’t fit the narrative that Zimmer supporters are the antagonists in this matter.
Again, I'm wondering why you are coming to me with this rather than taking it up with JTP.
For what it's worth, I used the word "defensive" in the context of blocking someone.
Usually, that happens when someone thinks they are being attacked or trolled or whatever.
The ignore function then becomes a defensive action.
That should make my verbiage a little clearer.
As for the "evidence" you refer to... yeah, it's there. 
You could always provide some evidence rather than just dismissively insist that there is some - you know, like I have I’m always prepared to be swayed by evidence. Show me that HansFans were aggressive before gold and silver age fans (of which I’m one, btw, at least the latter) implied they were idiots and I might well change my stance.
As for coming to you, JTP wasn’t worth the debate if he’s going to put contrary opinions on ignore. I disagreed with your point of view about Zimmer fans, to whom else would I go with a rebuttal?
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Posted: |
Jan 26, 2023 - 12:03 AM
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By: |
Octoberman
(Member)
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You could always provide some evidence rather than just dismissively insist that there is some - you know, like I have I’m always prepared to be swayed by evidence. Show me that HansFans were aggressive before gold and silver age fans (of which I’m one, btw, at least the latter) implied they were idiots and I might well change my stance.
As for coming to you, JTP wasn’t worth the debate if he’s going to put contrary opinions on ignore. I disagreed with your point of view about Zimmer fans, to whom else would I go with a rebuttal?
I doubt any evidence I could provide would change your stance because we have not mutually agreed upon what evidence we would both find acceptable. That's the first step in any meaningful debate.
And considering that your stance has been to challenge my opinion at every turn, I doubt that you are going to change your position any more than I would change mine.
I should emphasize that ALL of my comments in this thread, and every other Zimmer thread (with very few exceptions), have been generalities and should be taken as such--a point that seems to have been ignored.
You are just as welcome to provide proof that the Zimmer fans have never taken the first shot, but I don't require proof of your--or anyone's--opinion.
All of the threads are there if that's how you want to use your time.
I'll say it again.
The OP asked a question--people answered.
It's not always going to be a formal debate.
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Posted: |
Jan 26, 2023 - 1:10 AM
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By: |
Tall Guy
(Member)
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You could always provide some evidence rather than just dismissively insist that there is some - you know, like I have I’m always prepared to be swayed by evidence. Show me that HansFans were aggressive before gold and silver age fans (of which I’m one, btw, at least the latter) implied they were idiots and I might well change my stance.
As for coming to you, JTP wasn’t worth the debate if he’s going to put contrary opinions on ignore. I disagreed with your point of view about Zimmer fans, to whom else would I go with a rebuttal?
I doubt any evidence I could provide would change your stance because we have not mutually agreed upon what evidence we would both find acceptable. That's the first step in any meaningful debate.
And considering that your stance has been to challenge my opinion at every turn, I doubt that you are going to change your position any more than I would change mine.
I should emphasize that ALL of my comments in this thread, and every other Zimmer thread (with very few exceptions), have been generalities and should be taken as such--a point that seems to have been ignored.
You are just as welcome to provide proof that the Zimmer fans have never taken the first shot, but I don't require proof of your--or anyone's--opinion.
All of the threads are there if that's how you want to use your time.
I'll say it again.
The OP asked a question--people answered.
It's not always going to be a formal debate.
Just what someone with a vague feeling about something and no evidence WOULD say!
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Is it true that Hans Zimmer is an energy vampire
That is a scientifically established fact, yes. Similar to Dracula, who could do it himself, Hans Zimmer has the power to make people go up the walls.
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Posted: |
Jan 26, 2023 - 6:49 AM
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By: |
Thor
(Member)
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Is it true that Hans Zimmer is an energy vampire that feeds off of the negativity which a fraction of fraction of a minority feels towards him? The FSM message board must be his feeding grounds.
Wasn't always like that, though. I think this thread is a perfect example of how the discussion climate has changed over the years, as we recently talked about in another thread. No doubt there were naysayers back then too (the always-reliable oddball Andre Lux displayed some of his usual venom also in the early 2000s, as the beginning of this thread shows), but they were few and far between, and no one would consider this thread 'bait' or attack the man of the topic with such negative fervour. But as you can see from when this thread was bumped and onwards, it's a very different tone amongst the naysayers. Harsher, more confrontational and "grudgy".
I suppose part of it can be explained by Zimmer's even further rise to superstar status in the two decades since. The more popular someone you dislike becomes, the harsher the language you will use, seems to be trend. But it's also down to a more transparent aggressive and negative space that has grown steadily over the years, here on FSM and elsewhere. Maybe social media is to blame?
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