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 Posted:   Oct 29, 2021 - 5:56 AM   
 By:   jackfu   (Member)

The more these folks speak out about the incident, the worse they make themselves look.

"In a statement released by her lawyers on Friday, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed denied knowing where the live rounds on set came from.
Her attorneys Jason Bowles and Robert Gorence said: ‘Safety is Hannah’s number one priority on set.
‘Ultimately this set would never have been compromised if live ammo were not introduced. Hannah has no idea where the live rounds came from.’
The statement continued: ‘Hannah still, to this day, has never had an accidental discharge.
The first one on this set was the prop master and the second one was a stunt man after Hannah informed him his gun was hot with blanks.’
The statement came days after investigators confirmed Baldwin was the last one to hold the gun that killed Hutchins.
The 30 Rock star was handed the prop gun by assistant director David Halls, who took the revolver from a tray set up by armorer Gutierrez-Reed. It was said the gun was first taken out of a safe in a truck by prop master Sarah Zachry.
Santa Fe sheriff Adan Mendoza and Santa Fe district attorney Mary Carmack-Altwies shared a public update on the ongoing investigation in a press conference on Wednesday."

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 29, 2021 - 6:19 AM   
 By:   Nightingale   (Member)

"The statement came days after investigators confirmed Baldwin was the last one to hold the gun that killed Hutchins."

Really?! No kidding?!

 
 Posted:   Oct 29, 2021 - 6:20 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

The person most responsible for that woman's death is Alec Baldwin. It was absolutely his responsibility to check that weapon when it was handed to him. He failed. He has been in the business for decades and knows the drill. You can't just waive liability when you are the one who aimed the weapon and pulled the trigger. I don't wish this situation on anyone but facts are facts. He'll be fighting charges/lawsuits for years to come. My condolences to the family of the deceased.

The fact that this happens so rarely means they have a process that works. This time the process broke down. I doubt the process involves actors checking their own weapons.


Actors are not responsible for checking their weapons. Unless the scenes call for it, they are not even supposed to take out magazines to check if bullets are in them. They are given guns by the armorer and rely on the information given to them. (And this job is better done by armorers, too, as many actors know diddly-squat about weapons.)

 
 Posted:   Oct 29, 2021 - 6:52 AM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

Actors are forbidden to monkey with weapons on a set--for any reason.
If something seems not right, they hand it off to the appropriate crew-person.

On one hand, this seems overly cautious.
But on the other hand, yeah, it makes total sense.

 
 Posted:   Oct 29, 2021 - 7:27 AM   
 By:   Adam.   (Member)

I'm speaking more from a legal viewpoint than from an on-set protocol. There is little chance Baldwin skates on this legally though it could happen. Because of what he did one person is dead and another wounded. He can't just pass the buck on this. Were I an actor and someone gives me a working firearm (as opposed to a plastic prop) I AM CHECKING IT whether it's allowed or not. I'd rather get fired than risk the safety of others around me.

 
 Posted:   Oct 29, 2021 - 7:32 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

The person most responsible for that woman's death is Alec Baldwin. It was absolutely his responsibility to check that weapon when it was handed to him. He failed. He has been in the business for decades and knows the drill. You can't just waive liability when you are the one who aimed the weapon and pulled the trigger. I don't wish this situation on anyone but facts are facts. He'll be fighting charges/lawsuits for years to come. My condolences to the family of the deceased.

I don't really agree with that Adam. Baldwin like all actors are just trained monkeys. They're job is to put on a performance. The assistant director shouted "Cold Gun", meaning it was safe to use. If its the actors job to triple check a gun given to him/her for a shoot I'll stand corrected.

He could be culpable in other ways. If he wasn't using the gun properly (cold or hot) or if as co-producer (I think) they find he allowed an unsafe working environment on set. That's all to be determined yet.

 
 Posted:   Oct 29, 2021 - 8:07 AM   
 By:   Adam.   (Member)

I don't really agree with that Adam....

That's perfectly OK! I have no doubt that what happened was unintentional and a genuine accident. But many people have done prison time and/or have paid millions for accidents.

 
 Posted:   Oct 29, 2021 - 8:29 AM   
 By:   jackfu   (Member)

I wish members here with LEO, legal expertise, etc., could chime in.

Criminality would, I suspect come down to recklessness/neglect on the part of any involved. I'd think that no malice is suspected. Unless Baldwin was doing something flagrantly reckless, I think it's highly doubtful he'll be facing serious charges.
The armorer and AD may be another story.

I figure the civil liability aspects are likely to be the most prominent.
I've read that Baldwin had the movie production's liablity at only $1 million. Probably civil actions are going to exceed that.

 
 Posted:   Oct 29, 2021 - 8:34 AM   
 By:   Scott McOldsmith   (Member)

I don't really agree with that Adam. Baldwin like all actors are just trained monkeys.

Having performed in a large number of plays and a few independent films, I gotta say this isn't quite accurate.

Like all organizations, certain people have specific jobs. Sometimes you trust them to do it. Now, sure, being handed a weapon that could injure or kill people would put a little expectation of extra care. However, it's also understandable that if your hired expert tells you something is safe, you believe that person. That's why they are being paid.

It doesn't make Baldwin a trained monkey, regardless of how much you seem to hate actors. It makes him someone who trusted a member of his team.

It's super easy to second guess the actions of someone from your keyboard. None of us were there. I'm sure Baldwin, who is a human being, will probably second guess it long after every one of us here as forgotten about it.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 29, 2021 - 12:04 PM   
 By:   chriscoyle   (Member)

The person most responsible for that woman's death is Alec Baldwin. It was absolutely his responsibility to check that weapon when it was handed to him. He failed. He has been in the business for decades and knows the drill. You can't just waive liability when you are the one who aimed the weapon and pulled the trigger. I don't wish this situation on anyone but facts are facts. He'll be fighting charges/lawsuits for years to come. My condolences to the family of the deceased.

The fact that this happens so rarely means they have a process that works. This time the process broke down. I doubt the process involves actors checking their own weapons.


Actors are not responsible for checking their weapons. Unless the scenes call for it, they are not even supposed to take out magazines to check if bullets are in them. They are given guns by the armorer and rely on the information given to them. (And this job is better done by armorers, too, as many actors know diddly-squat about weapons.)


Even if an actor was a trained marksman you wouldn’t make him responsible for the gun.

 
 Posted:   Oct 29, 2021 - 12:24 PM   
 By:   jackfu   (Member)

Even if an actor was a trained marksman you wouldn’t make him responsible for the gun.

Yes, and others have gone on record that Baldwin always handled the revolver safely on set, always checking with the staff before handling it.

What I still don't get is why/how he aimed it directly at the cinematographer and the director (standing behind the cinematographer). Is it standard practice for the weapon be aimed at the cinematographer?

 
 Posted:   Oct 29, 2021 - 12:28 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

I would imagine they were going for a cool, dramatic shot towards the camera--a la the "James Bond gun-barrel" kind of thing--and the recoil caused Baldwin's aim to slightly shift.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 29, 2021 - 1:44 PM   
 By:   Jurassic T. Park   (Member)

A lot of things were wrong on that set but:

- There should never be live ammunition anywhere on a set
- Guns should never be mixed between their uses (prop/hero vs. blank)
- An AD should never be handling a gun of any kind
- An AD should never be providing the status of a gun on set
- The Armourer and their team should be the only ones handing guns to performers

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 29, 2021 - 2:00 PM   
 By:   eriknelson   (Member)

Please excuse some gallows humor, but I couldn't help but think of the final scene in NORTH BY NORTHWEST, and James Mason's remark to the sheriff.

 
 Posted:   Oct 29, 2021 - 2:01 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

There seems to be some scuttlebutt that during off-hours the set was an informal firing range.
Man, everything that could go wrong did go wrong.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 29, 2021 - 2:41 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Please excuse some gallows humor, but I couldn't help but think of the final scene in NORTH BY NORTHWEST, and James Mason's remark to the sheriff.

OMG! I hate to say it this way but "too perfect." If I had posted it, I'd be banned from the site, or at least added to the "ignore list" by everyone I'm not on already.

 
 Posted:   Oct 30, 2021 - 2:40 AM   
 By:   pzfan   (Member)


What I still don't get is why/how he aimed it directly at the cinematographer and the director (standing behind the cinematographer). Is it standard practice for the weapon be aimed at the cinematographer?


Better question is, why they stood in the line of fire? The set was small and crowded, but still...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2021/10/26/investigators-recover-ammunition-alec-baldwin-movie-shooting/

 
 Posted:   Oct 30, 2021 - 7:28 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

I don't really agree with that Adam. Baldwin like all actors are just trained monkeys.

Having performed in a large number of plays and a few independent films, I gotta say this isn't quite accurate.

Like all organizations, certain people have specific jobs. Sometimes you trust them to do it. Now, sure, being handed a weapon that could injure or kill people would put a little expectation of extra care. However, it's also understandable that if your hired expert tells you something is safe, you believe that person. That's why they are being paid.

It doesn't make Baldwin a trained monkey, regardless of how much you seem to hate actors. It makes him someone who trusted a member of his team.

It's super easy to second guess the actions of someone from your keyboard. None of us were there. I'm sure Baldwin, who is a human being, will probably second guess it long after every one of us here as forgotten about it.


Sorry for saying "Trained Monkey". I was being hyperbolic to make a point, that may or may-not have been accurate. I don't hate actors, well not all of them!

 
 Posted:   Oct 30, 2021 - 7:30 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)


What I still don't get is why/how he aimed it directly at the cinematographer and the director (standing behind the cinematographer). Is it standard practice for the weapon be aimed at the cinematographer?


Better question is, why they stood in the line of fire? The set was small and crowded, but still...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2021/10/26/investigators-recover-ammunition-alec-baldwin-movie-shooting/


If you wanted a point blank shot like that wouldn't you use an automated camera with no one behind them? Or trick mirrors so you're not really pointing at a person or equipment?

 
 Posted:   Oct 30, 2021 - 7:32 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

There seems to be some scuttlebutt that during off-hours the set was an informal firing range.
Man, everything that could go wrong did go wrong.


That's what I read and this would explain a lot.

 
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