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 Posted:   Oct 23, 2021 - 9:50 AM   
 By:   eriknelson   (Member)

I remember reading somewhere that most prop guns and blanks are of a slightly smaller caliber than their corresponding conventional guns and rounds. That way, a real round can't be placed in the chamber of a prop gun. Obviously this wasn't the case here.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2021 - 10:09 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

As I'm sure everyone is capable of reading elsewhere, this was apparently a real gun with live rounds, not a fake gun. An earlier speculation is that like the Brandon Lee death, a "dummy" bullet (real bullet without gunpowder) was stuck in the barrel, and when the blank was fired, it effectively fired the bullet.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2021 - 10:17 AM   
 By:   TheAvenger   (Member)

This is a real tragedy. What I can’t understand is why there was live ammo on set anyway. Surely in this day and age it isn’t necessary?

Hopefully this awful accident will result in more stringent control for future productions so this never happens again. But I had naively assumed there was already a strict regime for munitions anyway.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2021 - 10:21 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

The fact that this rarely happens and is a headliner underscores most films DO follow whatever rules. So much so that it's hard to believe this wasn't intentional. Not by the filmmakers, but that some malignant person disguised bullets as blanks, maybe in the retail or packaging process. Like the Tylenol poisoning which led to tamper-proof packaging.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2021 - 12:15 PM   
 By:   Thgil   (Member)

The media seem to be covering up the incident in favour of Baldwin.

In favor of Baldwin? They're stating the facts. He shot two people, one of whom died. Are they supposed to be calling him a murderer? I've seen a couple of headlines that have used the phrase "Alec Baldwin kills". What's your dog in this fight? The police have refused to use the word "accidental" so far. Maybe that'll assuage your paranoia.

Anyone who has taken firearms training knows the four rules of gun safety:

1) Assume that all firearms are loaded.

2) Never point the gun at a person you do not intend to kill.

3) Keep your finger off the trigger until you have made the decision to shoot.

4) Know what is behind your target because bullets can travel a long distance and hit things you did not mean to hit.


If everyone does their job on a film, these rules have nothing to do with being on set. Maintaining your distance to avoid killing someone with the wadding or giving them powder burns is the main issue with blanks. I don't know what movies you watch, but aiming and firing blank-firing weapons at people happens all the time because of the nature of action sequences. I don't know why you're trying to paint this as the fault of Baldwin, not the armorer. This is the biggest strawman I've run across on this board.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2021 - 1:02 PM   
 By:   TheAvenger   (Member)

The fact that this rarely happens and is a headliner underscores most films DO follow whatever rules. So much so that it's hard to believe this wasn't intentional. Not by the filmmakers, but that some malignant person disguised bullets as blanks, maybe in the retail or packaging process. Like the Tylenol poisoning which led to tamper-proof packaging.

That’s a very good, albeit shocking, theory and one I’d not considered. But thinking about it, yes, that has legs.

 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2021 - 1:12 PM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

Accidents and/or deaths on set don't get covered unless it's a name actor in involved, and even then for legal reasons and more it may simply not be brought up right away. We're just assuming things go right often on productions when it comes to accidents. Aside from the obvious ones already mentioned here in this thread, how many more can the average Joe who doesn't read about such stuff, really know about?

Further more, not every production requires prop gun, and even more further -- not every proper gun is even used to firing; it may simply be there to be held, be in a Pawn Shop, be in a bad guy's personal arsenal, and be for sale some some nefarious evil doer. It can't be the measure to say productions often go right if a prop gun.

To add fuel to the Baldwin fire, I heard (I'm not even going to bother looking this up, so take it for what it's worth) the prop guy was a newbie and some of the production staff had walked for safety concerns on set.

 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2021 - 2:24 PM   
 By:   Warlok   (Member)

The fact that this rarely happens and is a headliner underscores most films DO follow whatever rules. So much so that it's hard to believe this wasn't intentional. Not by the filmmakers, but that some malignant person disguised bullets as blanks, maybe in the retail or packaging process. Like the Tylenol poisoning which led to tamper-proof packaging.

That’s a very good, albeit shocking, theory and one I’d not considered. But thinking about it, yes, that has legs.


I would concur. Sad, but given how Baldwin has been politically active, that is a possibility that must be investigated.

 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2021 - 3:11 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

Earlier, this morning, I read a blurb from CNN that stated Baldwin's stunt double fired the gun.
Now I can't find any trace of that article.
Weird.

One thing is for sure, insurance rates and completion bonds for action films is about to skyrocket.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2021 - 3:34 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Earlier, this morning, I read a blurb from CNN that stated Baldwin's stunt double fired the gun.
Now I can't find any trace of that article.
Weird.


You mean fired the gun before the accident? Because Baldwin and others indicated he himself fired the fatal bullet, and submitted his bloody clothes to the cops. If not, then everyone is lying...to protect the stunt double by implicating Baldwin?

 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2021 - 3:49 PM   
 By:   Scott McOldsmith   (Member)

Really? Conspiracy theories? Jeez. The person assigned to make sure the gun was safe before Baldwin fired it was careless. Baldwin fired during a rehearsal and one person was killed. Why dig around for something sinister when it was most probably just a tragic accident?

 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2021 - 4:25 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

Guys, come on.
I wasn't trying to pass any BS around.
I was just saying what I saw and I called it "weird"--no more than that.

ETA: I dug around a bit more and it looks like the stunt double fired it a week ago.
But I could not find anything now to back up that CNN posted it the way I saw it this morning.
I'm chalking it up to me just waking up when I read it--or whatever it was that I thought I read.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2021 - 5:10 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Really? Conspiracy theories? Jeez. The person assigned to make sure the gun was safe before Baldwin fired it was careless. Baldwin fired during a rehearsal and one person was killed. Why dig around for something sinister when it was most probably just a tragic accident?

On the surface, you're correct. The vexxing question is how a live round got into a "prop" gun? Blanks do not look exactly like regular bullets. And they would only have dummys and blanks on hand for filmmaking. Even the Brandon Lee accident did not involve a live round, but was a freak occurrence where a dummy and blank were used consecutively. The accident just doesn't make sense.

Which is why I still suspect Ned Beatty. Has anyone considered if...

 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2021 - 6:10 PM   
 By:   ZapBrannigan   (Member)

Whatever else, how about if we don't use this thread as a platform for tasteless jokes. Somebody died.

 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2021 - 7:03 PM   
 By:   edwzoomom   (Member)

I long for the day that I will read a news item that is not accompanied by conspiracy theories or internet sleuthing.

As it currently stands, a woman is dead, a man is injured and traumatized and another man is equally traumatized with guilt. There are collectively 3 spouses and 10 children (one is now motherless) permanently affected by this tragedy. These are the facts and the only things that matter at the moment. My thoughts and prayers have been for all of those family members who are suffering and sorrowful right now.

 
 Posted:   Oct 23, 2021 - 8:26 PM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

I long for the day that I will read a news item that is not accompanied by conspiracy theories or internet sleuthing.

As it currently stands, a woman is dead, a man is injured and traumatized and another man is equally traumatized with guilt. There are collectively 3 spouses and 10 children (one is now motherless) permanently affected by this tragedy. These are the facts and the only things that matter at the moment. My thoughts and prayers have been for all of those family members who are suffering and sorrowful right now.


I agree, the wild speculations are really unwarranted and unnecessary. Also I don't care how rare gunshot deaths are in films. One is to many. There's absolutely no reason to have a working gun in a film.

 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2021 - 12:45 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

I long for the day that I will read a news item that is not accompanied by conspiracy theories or internet sleuthing.



Agreed. I mean, sure, this sounds like a perfect template for a Columbo episode, (movie star murders camera operative while making it look like an accident), but there is so far no reason to assume this was anything but a horrible accident on a film set that we all seem to agree on should not have happened.

 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2021 - 12:53 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

There's absolutely no reason to have a working gun in a film.

Though there are often completely real guns (and other weapons, like swords etc) on film sets. That's actually not that unusual. In fact, that's the reason there are so many precautions because these things can actually shoot. And you can't really solve this easily with "prop guns", as a real looking prop revolver will be basically a "real" revolver. Sure, there are precautions like gas nozzles in the barrel etc. that should prevent debris (or live bullets) from flying out, but lots of movie guns are basically more or less "real". Sometimes even live ammunition is shot on film sets, though usually not in scenes involving acting/actors.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2021 - 2:42 AM   
 By:   Rick15   (Member)

As it currently stands, a woman is dead, a man is injured and traumatized and another man is equally traumatized with guilt. There are collectively 3 spouses and 10 children (one is now motherless) permanently affected by this tragedy. These are the facts and the only things that matter at the moment.

Yep. This is simply a horrible tragedy for everyone involved.

 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2021 - 5:09 AM   
 By:   Warlok   (Member)

Really? Conspiracy theories? Jeez. The person assigned to make sure the gun was safe before Baldwin fired it was careless. Baldwin fired during a rehearsal and one person was killed. Why dig around for something sinister when it was most probably just a tragic accident?

Really? Over-reaction to possibilities? Mere mention of what is unlikely though possible is hardly picking up a placard for paranoia and crusading through the streets demanding revolution. Calm down. In today's right-wing brown-shirt thuggery environment, where right-wingers are making death threats to school board members and medical personnel, this is an angle with some legs. Again, not likely, but possible.

 
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